cti-taxii — archive

Query Use Cases Needed!

From: Jasen Jacobsen <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:15:00 -0000

My concern with Cypher, if offered as a candidate, is that it is proprietary (as far as I know) and would force an implementation to a particular vendor. There is also SPARQL. http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query / It is graph based, but targets RDF specifically which could be problematic. - Jasen. From: Patrick Maroney < [email protected] > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 9:50 AM To: "Wunder, John A." < [email protected] >, " [email protected] " < [email protected] >, MITRE Employee < [email protected] >, "Jordan, Bret" < [email protected] > Subject: Re: [cti-taxii] Query Use Cases Needed! In addition to the other suggestions, presuming we are talking next major release of TAXII, we should look at the Conceptual models for next gen STIX/CybOX which will presumably contain a much richer Relationships Model when considering approaches for the Query Language. In other words we might be able to incorporate Graph based queries (i.e., Cypher: http://neo4j.com/developer/cypher-query-language/ ) Patrick Maroney President Integrated Networking Technologies, Inc. Desk: (856)983-0001 Cell: (609)841-5104 Email: [email protected] On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 6:22 AM -0700, "Jacobsen, Jasen W." < [email protected] > wrote: I suggest XQuery. http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery / http://www.w3schools.com/xquery / This will not only allow very rich queries, but would allow the querier to specify what they want returned rather than entire STIX documents. - Jasen. From: < [email protected] > on behalf of "Jordan, Bret" < [email protected] > Date: Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 12:12 AM To: "Wunder, John A." < [email protected] >, " [email protected] " < [email protected] > Subject: Re: [cti-taxii] Query Use Cases Needed! All these are really good use cases. Thanks for taking the time to write them down. As these are all falling in to a general theme I think we can now being to look at the ideas that we need to support them.... So what I get from this discussion is: 1) We need a way for a client to present some sort of key/value pair where the key is the object identifier and the type of dataset that the value exists in and then the value is what it contains. 2) We need the ability to say, if that value in the object equals something, does not equal something, contains, etc. 3) We need the ability to say this object AND this other object or this OR that. Some examples... 1) Give me all indicators that contain a name of XYZ, that were seen between 2015-07-01T00:00:00 AND 2015-07-01T00:01:00 but not indicators with a TTP of FOO 2) Give me all TTPs with a name that contains ABC, and have observables in the following net block 4.0.0.0/8 and happened during January or February of 2015 The trick is going to be making this easy to do... As with all discussions on TAXII, we can easily and rapidly go from high level use-cases to putting rubber to the road. Simple Example Structures of a Query (to get the discussion going) Query: Key: stix-indicator-name Value: RedHat Operator: contains Query Key: stix-indicator-id Value: 1111-1234-1234-54321 Operator: equals This is pretty easy to wrap our brains around.... What gets more tricky is how to do an AND or an OR operator. Any thoughts? Thanks, Bret Bret Jordan CISSP Director of Security Architecture and Standards Office of the CTO Blue Coat Systems PGP Fingerprint: 63B4 FC53 680A 6B7D 1447 F2C0 74F8 ACAE 7415 0050 "Without cryptography vihv vivc ce xhrnrw, however, the only thing that can not be unscrambled is an egg." On Aug 12, 2015, at 13:47, Wunder, John A. < [email protected] > wrote: So here’s a few I’ve needed personally (project only partially uses STIX/TAXII now, but the concepts translate): Return all courses of action related to a given set of TTPs (granted this relationship does not exist in STIX now) Return all TTPs for a given set of indicators Return all incidents for a given set of indicators Query by construct type + title (I.e. Give me all campaigns where the name matches Deep Panda) The most advanced one I can think of: return incidents with specific affected asset (identified by IP or ID) John From: < [email protected] > on behalf of Jason Keirstead Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 3:36 PM To: Mark Davidson Cc: " [email protected] " Subject: Re: [cti-taxii] Query Use Cases Needed! Query by threat actor (with expected string search options) I would think to be important. - Jason Keirstead Product Architect, Security Intelligence, IBM Security Systems www.ibm.com/security www.securityintelligence.com Without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion - Unknown <graycol.gif> "Davidson II, Mark S" ---2015/08/12 03:22:56 PM---All, Since query was called out yesterday as a potential challenge for the Channel model that's been From: "Davidson II, Mark S" < [email protected] > To: " [email protected] " < [email protected] > Date: 2015/08/12 03:22 PM Subject: [cti-taxii] Query Use Cases Needed! Sent by: < [email protected] > All, Since query was called out yesterday as a potential challenge for the Channel model that’s been proposed for TAXII, I’d like for us to try and validate the Channel model against query use cases. I’d like for us to start by identifying query use cases that we think we care about. For now, a one-liner of the use case is probably the right level of abstraction (we can add more detail later). To get the conversation started, here are some things I’ve heard on the list: · Query by ID · Query by “observable” (e.g., IP / Hash) Once we’ve collected the use cases, we can analyze their impact on the channel model. Please offer up your one-liner query use cases! Thank you. -Mark P.S. We have not forgotten the query discussions of old; this is partly to generate discussion and partly to see what’s still on the forefront. <graycol.gif> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php