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Subject: DITA Translation Subcommittee Agenda for Monday 17 July 2006
Agenda for Monday 17 July 2006
11:00 am - 12:00 am Eastern Standard Team
DITA Technical Committee teleconference
USA Toll Free Number: 866-566-4838
USA Toll Number: +1-210-280-1707
PASSCODE: 185771
Sorry to have missed the last meeting. We found to our surprise that we
had no cell phone access or Internet access in the south of Ireland.
... JoAnn
Roll Call
Accept Minutes from 26 June 2006 (enclosed for those who are not TC
members)
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-translation/<http://ww
w.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-translation/>
Attached for non-members.
3) Review open action items
ACTION -- Don to inform us where to publish our best practices.
In progress.
ACTION -- Rodolfo to prepare an outline for this best practice
document
for translating DITA and submit to list for discussion at a future
meeting.
At that meeting, SC should agree on the outline.
4) Returning business:
4.1 Discuss Gershon Joseph's next draft of the best practice for legacy
TM
4.2 X-LIFF transforms continued discussion.
Discuss Rodolfo's draft outline for an XLIFF best practice document
for translating DITA if it is ready to discuss.
4.3 Discuss JoAnn's draft Best Practices for Indexing. Want to clarify
this document. It will be incorporated into the full Best Practice
statement that JoAnn and Andrzej are authoring.
5. New Business:
5.1 Handling multi-language documents
Charles Pau and others to provide examples to the list for
discussion
Don requests to move this item to the agenda of the next meeting.
5.2 Andrjez provided examples of the need to change reusable building
block
to the group for discussion.
JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services, Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver, CO 80215
303-232-7586
joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com
joannhackos Skype
www.comtech-serv.com
DITA Translation Subcommittee Meeting Minutes: 26 June 2006
(Recorded by Gershon Joseph <gershon@tech-tav.com>)
The DITA Translation Subcommittee met on Monday, 26 June 2006 at 08:00am PT
for 60 minutes.
1. Roll call
Present:
Robert Anderson
Don Day
Kevin Farwell
Nancy Harrison
Gershon Joseph
Rodolfo Raya
Regrets:
Felix Sasaki
2. Accept the minutes of the previous meeting.
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-translation/200606/msg00015.html
Accepted. Moved by Robert, seconded by Rodolfo, no objections.
3. Review open action items:
ACTION -- Andrzej to send terminology definitions to Gershon. Gershon to
add them to the document and ensure all text uses only these terms.
Closed.
ACTION -- Don to inform us where to publish our best practices.
In progress.
Action Item: Andrzej will provide examples to the group for discussion.
Closed.
4. Returning Business:
4.1 Discuss Gershon Joseph's draft of the best practice for legacy TM
Rodolfo: Erase last paragraph, earlier paragraph says all we want to say.
--ACTION-- Rodolfo will rewrite other problem paragraph and send to
Gershon by email. Gershon will send the revised document to Kevin for
review. Upon Kevin's approval, Gershon will post to the group for
discussion and approval next meeting.
4.2 Management of conref blocks for translations
The SC reviewed and discussed the following content, and recommends
it be included in the authoring best practice document JoAnn and Andrzej
are writing.
* Standardized (boilerplate) text should be kept in one or more standalone
DITA files used as a source for conrefs across a document set. Better
to have your conref definitions placed in a central and easily
locatable location.
* All boilerplate content for a language must be stand-alone.
Boilerplate text must be stand-alone phrases to avoid problems translating
it into some languages, where it does not fit into the surrounding text.
Rodolfo - conref dangerous when used as inline element, and should only
be used as stand-alone element. If conref contains a full sentence, it's
safer, but if it contains a product name or phrase, it's a problem for
translation.
Don: suggests "If conref is used, care should be taken to use it in a
manner that does not rely on adjectives or other modifiers, which will
result in bad translation".
Most common scenario for phrase level conref is product names.
Minimize impact to translation by ensuring you include only the product
name and no modifier within the conref phrase. This rule does not work
in every language, for example Polish (Andrzej's examples).
Be aware that some target languages may result in other issues with the
translated conref. Therefore, the translated document must be reviewed
by the translator.
* Conreffing to an inline element (may be part of the previous bullet)
Conreffing to an inline element may result in a badly translated phrase
with respect to its surrounding content, so we should probably be
against this. Examples: singular/plural, prepositions, acronyms e.g.
ABS (antilock breaking system). So if you conref to the text itself,
the translated text may noA??????Rcorrectly. [We're not saying not to use
conref, only that authors and translators must be aware of the dangers
(side effects).]
* Order of translation
The conref targets should be translated before the parent document
that refers to the conref is translated.
Indicate which document is the source document(s) for the conrefs, so
that translators can translate them first. It's important that the
conref content "fits into" the source documents cleanly where used.
4.3 XLIFF transforms
Discuss plans for Rodolfo's tests of their XLIFF transforms and possible
release to open source. Ask if there is a proposed date.
Andrzej and Rodolfo have successfully converted DITA to XLIFF and back.
Rodolfo plans to publish their converter as open source.
Don summarized - emails between Rodolfo and Brian Schnabel on creating XLIFF
from DITA documents. Andrzej supplied xml-tm input, and discussions on
how to apply the namespaces. Brian should be part of the ongoing discussions.
Rodolfo: Brian's tool works only at block level, not at sentence level.
Samples that I sent to list (which JoAnn forwarded) use sentence level
segmentation. I used our own tool with SRX to identify sentences
within the block. If you go to www.heartsome.net you can request a demo of
the translation suite and convert DITA files to XLIFF and back.
Don: What's the preferred workflow so that every vendor will assemble the
tool set correctly?
Rodolfo: When transforming a block, there's an option to analyze the block
to break it down into sentences and even smaller blocks if required (by
looking for fullstops, colons (begin list), etc. XSLT is not good at this,
we use a Java program to do this.
Don: We should discuss what we expect from the XLIFF document -- preferred
workflow and what XLIFF file should contain. If XLIFF file is generated
from Brian's tool, the translator can break the blocks down further in the
CAT tool later.
Don: We should create a best practice for the use of XLIFF in translation.
Gershon: Workflow would be Brian's tool is used to convert DITA to XLIFF,
send XLIFF files out to translation provider, get XLIFF back, transform
back into DITA and publish to target outputs.
Rodolfo: That's true for open source tool chain, commercial tools let you
export to XLIFF, pretranslate using TM, segment, etc., translate and then
export to XLIFF for import back into DITA.
Rodolfo: Another workflow is to send the DITA content to the translator.
Rodolfo has a workflow document published on IBM DeveloperWorks we could
use as basis for the best practice document. This doc is at:
http://www.heartsome.org/EN/localisation.html
Another useful document on XLIFF is at:
http://www.heartsome.org/EN/xliff.html
Discussion on copyright of the DeveloperWorks document. No copyright issues.
Don: Yves should be on review list of this best practice document.
--ACTION-- Rodolfo to prepare an outline for this best practice document
for translating DITA and submit to list for discussion at a future meeting.
At that meeting, SC should agree on the outline.
5. New Business:
5.1 Handling multi-language documents
Charles Pau and others to provide examples to the list for discussion
Don requests to move this item to the agenda of the next meeting.
5.2 Andrjez provided examples of the need to change reusable building block
to the group for discussion. We need to discuss this at a future meeting.
6. Announcements
The SC will not meet on July 3. Next meeting will be on July 10.
Meeting adjourned at 09:00am PT.
---
Best Practice for Indexing DITA topics.doc
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