RE: [ebxml-msg] Large file transmission using AS2 restart

All,

What specific questions were discussed last week in regards to AS2 Restart proper? My understanding is that there were questions for instances if messages expire? Any others?

Aaron Gomez

DGI

From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 11:50 AM
To: 'Moberg Dale'; timothy@drummondgroup.com
Cc: ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Large file transmission using AS2 restart

In the update (v56) I just posted, I've added a restriction to "push" mode when using AS Restart, to be able to use this feature without modification. And left open the possibility to specify other transport-level restart mechanisms. AS2 Restart will still be useful for ebMS since deployments where this feature is needed will typically not be the small companies that motivated "pull" but medium or large organizations, so in practice many of the intended users would be served.

But perhaps we should still to a SOAP-level chunking/splitting mechanism to get a really general solution.

Pim

From: Moberg Dale [mailto:dmoberg@axway.com]
Sent: 29 March 2010 18:08
To: Pim van der Eijk; timothy@drummondgroup.com
Cc: ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Large file transmission using AS2 restart

Good question.

Restart was intended mainly for POST HTTP messaging with the “payload” sent in the POST, not in the response. This can be seen in that the sender (the POSTer) needs to find out from the receiver (using HEAD) how much data was received for an identified payload.

In the reverse case (using the “backchannel”) some other solution is needed. GET with a byte range? Re-POST with a payload identifier and something indicating the byte ranged that is still needed?

From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:27 PM
To: timothy@drummondgroup.com
Cc: ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Large file transmission using AS2 restart

Hello,

AS2 only supports "pushed" messages, and this is what AS2 Restart supports.

A question is whether this mechanism could be used for large "pulled" messages.

Pim

(I will post an updated version of the spec today or tomorrow)

From: Timothy Bennett [mailto:timothy@drummondgroup.com]
Sent: 26 March 2010 16:51
To: Moberg Dale
Cc: Pim van der Eijk; ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [ebxml-msg] Large file transmission using AS2 restart

During last Wednesday's discussion on the TC about using AS2 Restart, there were a number of questions raised about the spec that couldn't be answered. Would you folks that raised questions, please post them here, so that I can submit them to Aaron Gomez here at Drummond Group so that he and Terry Harding (Axway; AS2 Restart spec editor) to brainstorm/prepare responses.

Thanks!

Moberg Dale wrote:

New drafts will be issued until a decision is made about advancing it

through the IETF RFC process. I would have to find out whether there are

any dependencies on existing drafts. But mainly nothing unusual seems to

be in store for the draft's progress because it will meet the IP

policies and it is an informational RFC. Therefore, it does not have to

go through the same reviews as a standards track RFC would go through.

-----Original Message-----

From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:01 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Large file transmission using AS2 restart

Hello Dale,

The draft IETF document expires on April 4th.   What is the

next step for this spec?

Pim

-----Original Message-----

From: Moberg Dale [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: 24 March 2010 17:13

To: Pim van der Eijk; [email protected]

Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Large file transmission using AS2

restart

I asked Terry Harding (author/editor) of the draft and he

and I agree that there is no obstacle in using the procedure

with any HTTP POST based protocol. There is a new HTTP

header with an ID, and there is state to retain on the

receiver(and sender) side. The receiver also needs to

support the HEAD HTTP request.

(It also pretends that a GET request on the resource URI

exists and is defined so that it would have a content-length

associated with it that the HEAD requests return. This

content-length number allows the sender to know where to

restart, if necessary.)

Remember that the document is currently an Internet-Draft

and not yet a RFC.

-----Original Message-----

From: Pim van der Eijk [mailto:pvde@sonnenglanz.net]

Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:52 AM

To: [email protected]

Subject: [ebxml-msg] Large file transmission using AS2

restart

Hello,

There is a requirement of some potential users of ebMS 3.0

to be able to exchange large files (Gigabytes and larger).

There is a specification for AS2 that offers a "restart"

feature:

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-harding-as2-restart-00.txt

We can borrow this feature for ebMS, and add a mini-section

to chapter 4 that references the AS2 feature. Since we just

reference the IETF RFC, this feature adds just a few lines

of text to the spec. Many multi-protocol B2B products

support this for AS2 already.  It would be minimal effort

for them to enable this for ebMS.  For ebMS users, it adds a

useful capability.

As we did for pipelining, we could add a Pmode parameter to

indicate whether the ebMS MSH supports it or not.  If

"True", clients in HTTP client mode can add the HTTP ETAG

with ebMS messages sent and can use the HTTP HEAD command to

obtain the status of the transfer, as described in the RFC.

If "False", they should not do this. We've added Pipelining

to MEPBinding, and could do the same with "Restart":

PMode.MEPbinding.Restart  {True/False}

Or we could make it a parameter in PMode.Protocol

What do people think?

Pim

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