Formatted minutes of 2009-08-27 telcon

Minutes

<anish>

agenda --

<anish>

1. Roll Call
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/roster.php
2. Appointment of scribe
Scribe list attached below
3. Agenda bashing
4. Approval of Aug 20, 2009 minutes
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200908/msg00041.html
5. Action Items review
#0103 create alternate proposal for Issue 52 -- Najeeb
DONE
#0104 send new proposal for issue 41 -- Anish
PENDING
6. New Issues
a) Issue 56 - No scoping rules specified to resolve variable name referred by sca-bpel:multiRefForm extension for the partner link
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-56
b) Issue 57 - No initialization mechanism specified for the variable with sca-bpel:multiReference extension
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-57
7. Issue Discussion
7 open issues
a) Issue 52
CT generation (section 2.1.1) does not take into consideration the multRefFrom attribute
http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-52
Initial proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200907/msg00037.html
Addendum to the proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200908/msg00014.html
Proposal from Anish: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200908/msg00035.html
Alternate proposal from Najeeb: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200908/msg00049.html
b) Issue 41
SBPEL2022 has an incorrect 'MAY' and is not applied recursively
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-41
Email discussion -
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200905/msg00035.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200905/msg00041.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200905/msg00044.html
Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200908/msg00011.html
Proposal v2: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200908/msg00036.html
Awaiting proposal v3 from Anish
c) Issue 53
BPEL Process: References with Multiplicity 0..1 - how are they supposed to work?
http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-53
Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200908/msg00021.html
d) Issue 54
sca-bpel:multiReference/@partnerLinkType and sca-bpel:multiReference/@partnerRole cardinality
http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-54
Proposal: in Jira
e) Issue 55
Co-occurrence constraints on sca-bpelroperty attribute and sca-bpel:multiReference element
http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-55
Proposal: in Jira
f) Issue 46
SBPEL3006 isn't deterministic
http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-46
no proposal
g) Issue 50
Need more examples in the specification
http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-50
no proposal
8. AOB

Scribe: Najeeb Andrabi

Agenda bashing

Agenda approved.

approval of 2009-08-20 minutes

meeting minutes approved for Aug 20th call.

Resolution: minutes of 2009-08-20 telcon located at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200908/msg00041.html
approved

AI review

AI 103 and 104 done.

New issues

Danny moves to open issue #56; anish seconds.

Issue #56 is now open.

motion passed.

The discussion is absolutely about whether the issue is an issue

Resolution: issue 56 is now open

Danny:

Initialization of properties needs to extended to multi reference variable initialization.

Danny moves to open #57; Najeeb seconds

motion passed.

Issue #57 is now open.

Resolution: issue 57 is now open

issue 52

Alternate proposal from Najeeb: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200908/msg00049.html

Anish:

Change SBPEL2004.2 to use "sca:reference" @name attribute

Mike Edwards:

Always, use partner link name as the name of the multi-valued reference.

<anish>

30004 is a little convoluted

one way to model the multi-ref initialization would be to represent the extension as a) a simple extension attribute on the variable declaration element

and b) the initialization of the variable be represented by an extension child element of the variable declaration that in effect is an extended <from/> element, similar in form to the standard <from/> element

which I think addresses one of the points made by Danny in our earlier discussion

since the idea of the SCA initialization of these variables is precisely that of an extended form of initialization, where the data for the initialization is coming from a source outside the process

<anish>

this is making me think, are multiRefs such a mismatch to BPEL?

<anish>

if so, what if we didn't support them in BPEL C&I?

they are not a mismatch to BPEL at all

BPEL spec describes the assignment of an EPR to a partnerLink variable

so the EPR had to come from somewhere - and the somewhere is a variable of some kind

the BPEL spec even has a datastructure type to hold these EPRs

<anish>

k, understood. I was mostly thinking aloud. It seems like multiRefs stumps everyone. I had to explain to some of our devs how they work, as they were completely baffled about it

we *could* make it illegal

ie multirefs for BPEL

<anish>

that is what I was pondering

<anish>

whether that makes more sense

<anish>

and simplifies the spec quite a bit

but you might ask your devs to think about the case where a process needs to get some data from a set of equivalent services - eg a set of prices for some widgets

from a whole series of suppliers

<anish>

i don't think the problem is the usecase

that looks to me like a sequence of calls

using the same partnerlink in a loop, with the target EPR changing each time you go round the loop

<anish>

the problem is that everyone seems to stumble on it and the BPEL-centric folks certainly don't get it right away

so then, where did the list of EPRs come from?

if we use the wired-by-Impl paradigm, the list *could* have been sent to the process in a service invocation

ie it arrives as the value of a message variable on a receive, say

Schreiber diagnostics output

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final validation: Title not specified, default title 'OASIS SCA-BPEL TC...' was assumed

statistics: Schreiber found 113 input lines

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edits: Line 140: anish: s/then/them/

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command-scribe: Line 86: Najeeb Andrabi recognized

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system: Transformer: SAXON 9.0.0.2

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sca-bpel message

- DRAFT -

OASIS SCA-BPEL TC

27 AUG 2009

Attendees

Contents

Action Items

Resolutions

Minutes

Agenda bashing

approval of 2009-08-20 minutes

AI review

New issues

issue 52

Schreiber diagnostics output