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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] RE: Act versus Object versus...both?


I know hard core techies who do it to avoid their IT people.� Especially prevalent on people who do computer security work and avoid Exchange.

Ken

On Dec 9, 2005, at 7:47 AM, Matt MacKenzie wrote:

Are people still using mutt, pine and elm to read email?

-matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 11:59 AM
To: Bashioum, Christopher D; Chiusano Joseph;
Subject: RE: [soa-rm] RE: Act versus Object versus...both?

Please send text only, or do whatever is required so that I don't
have to turn on html in my email client, because I will certainly
forget to turn it off again before writing to other listservs where
recipients get bent out of joint whenever they encounter this stuff.
Of course, I also can't read whatever the message was supposed to be.

Rex

At 11:23 AM -0500 12/8/05, Bashioum, Christopher D wrote:
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent: 06
December
� � 2005 19:09 </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:
</SPAN></FONT><FONT
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cc:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:
RE:
� � [soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I agree
with Ken.
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
service
� � consumer is the key concept that indicates the entity that invoked
the
� � service in the first place. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A
brokering service
� � or service actor is merely a middle-man. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Wes
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">-----Original
� � Message----- </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From: Ken
Laskey
� � [mailto:[email protected]] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:
December 6,
� � 2005 2:02 PM </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cc:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:
RE:
� � [soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I could
argue that
� � a broker consumes the service on someone else's behalf.&nbsp; In
reality,
� � service actor seems too nondescriptive because either the consumer
or the
� � provider can be thought of as an actor. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ken
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">At 01:45
PM
� � 12/6/2005, [email protected] wrote: </SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I hate to
stir
� � things up a bit, but can you change the service consumer term to
service
� � actor? </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Since in
the case
� � of brokering the service actor is not consuming but brokering a
request to
� � another service. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
broker service
� � can be a service actor upon the service but might not really
consume any
� � part of the service since it is a pass through.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">But I
guess this is
� � a matter of opinion. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- Dan
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">-----Original
� � Message----- </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:
Ken Laskey [
� � mailto:[email protected]] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:
Tuesday,
� � December 06, 2005 10:39 AM </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:
Duane Nickull;
� � Goran Zugic; Matt MacKenzie; MATHEWS, Tim; Sally St. Amand;
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cc:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:
RE:
� � [soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think
we need to
� � add some words to the RM to capture this discussion.&nbsp; We
cover part of
� � this in the beginning of Section 3.2.1 but need to be more
specific that:
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- a
service
� � consumer can be a human or a software agent; </SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- a
service
� � consumer can invoke any number of services (including a single
service in
� � isolation) and can chain the output of some services to act as
the input of
� � others; </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- from
the
� � perspective of a given service, the occurrence of such chaining
would not be
� � visible; </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- the
service
� � consumer can be implementing a business process;
</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">- the
specific of a
� � business process do not change the basic SOA concepts as described
in the
� � RM; however, the specific architecture that one designs and
implements will
� � reflect the business process and make use of specific service
instances that
� � corresponds to the real world effects that the business process
hopes to
� � realize. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Now
that said, and
� � in full appreciation that we agreed earlier that mechanisms which
combine
� � services (e.g. choreography, orchestration) are out of scope, is
it
� � sufficient for words, such as those suggested above, to be
included
� � somewhere within the current discussion or do we need to pull it
out into a
� � subsection on its own?&nbsp; As an example of the former, we tried
to deal
� � with loose-coupling and coarse-grained with words at the end of
Section 2.1.
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ken
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">At 12:23
PM
� � 12/6/2005, Duane Nickull wrote: </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Goran:
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I
slightly disagree
� � with your assertions, probably based on semantics.&nbsp; For a
service to
� � "participate" in a process, it would have to be aware of the
process (which
� � many will not be).&nbsp; A better way to depict this may be to
state
� � "services may be aggregated and used by processes" and "processes
may be
� � represented/exposed as services".&nbsp; There are really no limits
to the
� � number of layers that can be present.&nbsp; Attached is a UML
CVD depicting
� � such. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A key
rationale of
� � why process is not part of SOA is that services cannot see
process.&nbsp;
� � They are not aware of whether they are being called as part of a
process vs.
� � as an individual service.&nbsp; If the "s" part of SOA cannot see
or touch
� � that, it cannot be part of the RM. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
chicken and egg
� � discussion you bring forward is a requirement for those building
services to
� � strongly consider the business process when designing their
service
� � infrastructure.&nbsp; Accordingly, it is not really part of the RM
for SOA
� � yet I agree that it is a very important consideration.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">For your
messages
� � to get to the list, you must join as a "applicant" rather than
an "observer"
� � as per OASIS process. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Duane
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">*******************************</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Adobe
Systems,
� � Inc. - </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">http://www.adobe.com</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN lang=FR-CA
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial;
mso-ansi-language: FR-CA">Vice
� � Chair - UN/CEFACT&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy
� � size=2><SPAN lang=FR-CA
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial;
mso-ansi-language: FR-CA">http://www.uncefact.org/
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN lang=FR-CA
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext;
mso-ansi-language: FR-CA"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chair -
OASIS SOA
� � Reference Model Technical Committee </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Personal
Blog -
� � http://technoracle.blogspot.com/ </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">*******************************
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:
Goran Zugic [
� � mailto:[email protected]] </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:
Monday,
� � December 05, 2005 8:47 PM </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:
Duane Nickull;
� � Matt MacKenzie; MATHEWS, Tim; Sally St. Amand;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cc:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:
Re:
� � [soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Duane,
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks
for the
� � response. Yes I would like to see the PPT. I hope you do not mind
if I add
� � few more thoughts related to services and business processes:
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Services
� � participate in a business process to add some value to it. They
can be
� � governed and evaluated using business process metrics. One service
can
� � participate in many business processes and provide value to each
of them
� � according to the context within that process. As far as SOA is
concerned it
� � is as important to know what the service does, how it can be
discovered,
� � contacted, invoked, executed, etc. as it is to be able to use it
within the
� � process context, measure it and assess its value from the business
process
� � requirements point of view. SOA needs to avoid typical new
technology
� � chicken and egg syndrome, e.g. companies not producing services
because
� � there are no service friendly process definitions to use them
and not having
� � SOA friendly process definitions because there are no services to
use.
� � Services do not have to know if they will be involved in the
process
� � upfront, they will be contacted on demand according to the process
script
� � that is in effect, and they will be contacted, checked if
available, passed
� � the arguments, collected the response and according to their
procedure left
� � alone to wait for another call. The process execution engine
however needs
� � to invoke the service according to both service specific
information and the
� � process specific information. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Having
just the
� � service specific information in a model covers only one part of
the picture
� � and I think it is fine as long as that model is a pure service
model.
� � However I find it difficult to understand that the SOA RM TC
model is a SOA
� � reference model when it does not include other concepts of SOA.
� � Unfortunately it seems that we cannot get to the point where we
could agree
� � on a minimal set of supported SOA concepts by a model to be the
<st1:place
� � w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">SOA</st1:PlaceName>
<st1:PlaceType
� � w:st="on">RM.</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>&nbsp; We do not have to
and I do
� � not want to argue with you or anybody else in SOA RM TC. I am
just trying to
� � see how our works can fit together in a most efficient way. We
obviously
� � need more time to better understand each others thoughts and ideas
and I
� � strongly believe that a constructive respectable discussion is
helpful for
� � everybody. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">By the
way, do you
� � know what I am supposed to do to get my messages to the SOA RM
list. In
� � spite of that I am the SOA RM TC observer I get a faliure notice
whenever I
� � send a note to the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
� � w:st="on">SOA</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
� � w:st="on">RM.</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>&nbsp;
</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Goran
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-----
Original
� � Message ----- </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:
Duane Nickull
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:
Matt MacKenzie
� � ; [email protected] ; MATHEWS, Tim ; Sally St. Amand ;
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cc:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:
Monday,
� � December 05, 2005 5:02 PM </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:
RE:
� � [soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Goran:
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
service layer
� � enables the process layer over top of it, however during runtime,
services
� � do not know if they are part of a process or being called
individually (it
� � would generally be a bad idea to try to maintain the overall state
of a
� � process within each service, although it could be done).&nbsp; For
maximum
� � repurposing of services, it would be better to have the service
as a simple
� � slave to the processes that may use it.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">Accordingly, we
� � made a decision that BPM, Orchestration, choreography is not a
core part of
� � the RM for SOA.&nbsp; We generally seem to agree that many SOA
� � implementations will include a layer of BPM over top.&nbsp; We are
only
� � addressing the SOA model, not the model for the underlying or
overarching
� � layers. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have a
PPT that
� � explains this in more detail if you are interested.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Duane
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">*******************************</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Adobe
Systems,
� � Inc. - </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">http://www.adobe.com</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � face=Arial color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN lang=FR-CA
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial;
mso-ansi-language: FR-CA">Vice
� � Chair - UN/CEFACT&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy
� � size=2><SPAN lang=FR-CA
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial;
mso-ansi-language: FR-CA">http://www.uncefact.org/
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN lang=FR-CA
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext;
mso-ansi-language: FR-CA"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chair -
OASIS SOA
� � Reference Model Technical Committee </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Personal
Blog -
� � http://technoracle.blogspot.com/ </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">*******************************
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:
Matt
� � MacKenzie [ mailto:[email protected]] </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:
Monday,
� � December 05, 2005 12:51 PM </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:
� � [email protected]; MATHEWS, Tim; Sally St. Amand;
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cc:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:
RE:
� � [soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Process
orientation
� � is only one of multiple potential integration with service
oriented
� � architecture.&nbsp; SOA-RM is laying the foundation for durable
architecture
� � based on the core concept of service orientation.&nbsp; We
recognize that
� � process oriented architecture is a natural fit with service
� � orientation...but so are things like event orientation.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-matt
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:
Monday,
� � December 05, 2005 3:36 PM </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:
MATHEWS, Tim;
� � Matt MacKenzie; Sally St. Amand; [email protected]
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cc:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:
Re:
� � [soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think
that SOA RM
� � has done good job documenting well-known service related concepts
and
� � defining some new ones. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I do
not see other
� � details besides service and service-related concept definitions in
the
� � current SOA RM committee draft right now. I look forward to seeing
the
� � completion of the model you are working on with the bottom-up
approach.
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">Business, business
� � processes and collaboration aspects of business are important to
address in
� � the model what is not the case with the current content of the SOA
RM
� � committee draft. By a business process I mean a generic business
process
� � entity which has common components (activities, decisions, etc)
and
� � relationships between them that can be used to model a business
process in
� � any environment regardless of what business we support and
technology we
� � use. I agree with Sally that a link between business processes
and services
� � should be one of key requirements any SOA reference model should
try to
� � meet. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am
not sure what
� � SOA with services brings to business when the link between the
business
� � processes and services and overall business process semantics in
the SOA
� � context are not considered to be important aspects in a
SOA-based reference
� � model. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Goran
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial">-----Original
� � Message----- </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:
MATHEWS, Tim
� � [ mailto:[email protected]] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:
Monday,
� � December 5, 2005 12:34 PM </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To: 'Matt
� � MacKenzie', 'Sally St. Amand', [email protected]
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cc:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:
RE:
� � [soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
� � "Componentization" </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Matt - I
am not
� � sure what point you are trying to make by this?&nbsp; I agree with
your
� � premise of a bottom up effort, as this was one of the operating
assumptions
� � that was made from the beginning. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">But, I
am confident
� � it is the business environment that is independent from the
reference model.
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">TM
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:
Matt
� � MacKenzie [ mailto:[email protected]] </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:
Monday,
� � December 05, 2005 11:58 AM </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To: Sally
St.
� � Amand; [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cc:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:
RE:
� � [soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
� � "Componentization" </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sally,
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A
reference model
� � actually needs to be a bottom up effort.&nbsp; We leave the ever
so popular
� � ?top-down? approach to folks like ebSOA J </SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We?re
creating a
� � vocabulary and general understanding of what I hope we can call
a discipline
� � of computer science in the future.&nbsp; This means, we need a
durable
� � reference model that is not dependent on the current business
environment.
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-matt
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:
Sally St.
� � Amand [ mailto:[email protected]] </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:
Monday,
� � December 05, 2005 10:19 AM </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cc:
� � [email protected] </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:
Re:
� � [soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
� � "Componentization" </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Frank
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is
in response
� � to your request on last week?s conference call, if anyone has
comments speak
� � now. I also think that the recent comments on clarifying sections
are a
� � reflection of my issues with the specification.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I agree
with the
� � majority of points made/described in ver 10. My issues are with
what is not
� � in this draft. Based on Fig 1 the Refe! rence Model is guided by
Reference
� � Architectures, Concrete Architectures, Profile &amp; Related
Models. They in
� � turn account for requirements, motivation &amp; goals. This is
creating a
� � Reference Model from the bottom up. I believe a Reference Model
should
� � reflect a top down approach. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
Reference Model
� � needs to reflect the environment, the strategy and the priorities
of the
� � business/mission/collaboration.&nbsp; This will impact the
construction of
� � services. A service is a business task or activity that is
realized through
� � technology. The draft does a good job of describing how that
realization
� � happens. But it doesn?t provide a sufficient link between
processes and
� � services. The draft makes the point that the central focus of! SOA
is the
� � task of business function?getting something done. A business
process is made
� � up of tasks and activities to achieve a goal (getting something
done). The
� � concept of creating the service from the tasks and activities in a
process
� � is important. For example, where on the continuum of fine
grained to coarse
� � grained should a particular service be; this will affect
interaction,
� � reusability. The relationship between processes and services
needs to be in
� � the Reference Model. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">While I
saw that
� � there is a note saying the glossary is still in flux, since one of
the
� � objective of the Reference Model is a vocabulary, having less in
the
� � glossary might be a better option. Is semantic integration a
guiding
� � principle of SOA? </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">With
respect to
� � conformance there needs to be business results. That is an SOA
should
� � provide demonstrable mission accomplishments, e.g. ROI, match a
competitors
� � distribution channel. SOA is not a technology. Conformance should
provide
� � operational accomplishments, these should be measurable.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"><FONT
� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sally
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � <P class=MsoNormal
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � <P class=MsoNormal
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">!
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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� � face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
� � </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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� � <DIV
� � style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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� � face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
� � style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT
� � color=black><SPAN
� � style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt:
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CKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

</x-html>


--
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-849-2309

---
Ken Laskey
MITRE Corporation, M/S H305� � �phone:� 703-983-7934
7515 Colshire Drive� �� �� �� �� �� �� �� �fax:� � �� �703-983-1379
McLean VA 22102-7508





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