RE: [dita] outputclass on map elements

I think that Erik’s point is that
the values in the outputclass attribute should not (contrary to what the spec
says) be treated as “CSS definitions.” Rather it should be a way of
treating some elements special relative to others for any purpose. Ultimately it comes down to a question of
philosophy. If one takes a strict schema-driven philosophy then all semantics should
be captured in a centralized, schema-driven way. Outputclass anticipates that
this might be impractical in some situations. For example the person might not
have the correct skills, or permission to change the DTDs, or capacity to
change the DTD in every relevant place (authoring tool, CMS, publishing tool)
or … Sort of like processing instructions which are another workaround
for people who don’t have total control of DTDs. 

 

I see it as being a bit more helpful than
harmful and tend to prefer to treat our users as responsible adults. But I’ve
never needed outputclass myself nor advocated that a customer use it, except
during a transition period from a loose document type to a strict one. 

 

From: France Baril
[mailto:] 

Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:53
AM

To: 

Cc: Erik Hennum; Grosso, Paul

Subject: RE: [dita] outputclass on
map elements

 

I'm with Paul on this, it makes me very
nervous too, but not because it's HTML only.

 

My reason is that having CSS information in the content means that you can never
redesign the HTML style completely
or use CSS that don't have that class defined. I wonder if
the proposal should not be to remove this attribute from topics instead of
adding it to maps. 

 

I'm aware this could cause issues with
backward compatibity, but it could prevent other issues for users down the
road.

 

Moreover, shouldn't most writers be
completely ignorant of the CSS definitions?

 

France
Baril

Documentation
Architect/Architecte documentaire

IXIASOFT

 

tel.:        
+ 1 514 279-4942 (new extension number 350)

              
+ 1 877 279-IXIA (new extension number 350)

fax:        
+ 1 514 279-3947



[   www.ixiasoft.com  
]

 

Let's Talk XML

 

 

From: Erik
Hennum [mailto:] 

Sent: June 7, 2006 1:57 PM

To: Grosso, Paul

Cc: 

Subject: RE: [dita] outputclass on
map elements

Hi, Paul:

To clarify, the outputclass attribute is available on the topic elements in
DITA 1.0. The attribute should have been provided on the DITA map elements as
well -- hence the bug fix.

The outputclass attribute really fills a role similar to the DocBook role attribute.
Where the output format has a concept of class or role (as with HTML), the
outputclass can be copied into the output, but its primary purpose is to
provide informal semantic extension
rather than stuff names into the HTML class attribute.

The attribute could have a better name.

Erik Hennum



"Grosso,
Paul" <>

 

  
  
"Grosso,
  Paul" <> 

  
06/07/2006 07:24 AM

  
  
  
   

    
    

    
To

    
    
    

    <>

    
   

   

    
    

    
cc

    
    
    

    
   

   

    
    

    
Subject

    
    
    

    RE: [dita]
    outputclass on map elements

    
   

  
  
 

  
   

    
    

    
    
    

    
   

  
  

  
 

It makes me nervous to embed HTML-only stuff in the DITA model.

How do
you propose to treat this attribute for print/pdf output? How do you propose to
write up this attribute in the spec in an output-independent fashion that still
remains useful?

paul

From: Erik Hennum [mailto:]

Sent: Tuesday, 2006 June 06 17:01

To: 

Subject: [dita] outputclass on map elements

Hi,
Esteemed Technical Committee:

The 1.1 bug list (http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/Bug_fixes_for_DITA_1%2e1#preview) has an item that never received final
disposition -- adding the outputclass attribute to the map elements
(<map>, <topicref>, <navref>, <anchor>, and
<reltable>):

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/200602/msg00082.html

To recap, the outputclass attribute assigns an informal
role to an element. As such, outputclass is quite useful for extending the
semantic without formal specialization. For instance, you can use outputclass
to mock up a specialization in the base document type or to create handles for
custom processing. Typical output processing for HTML copies the outputclass
into the class attribute so users can create custom CSS styling. 

Currently, outputclass is only available on topic elements and not on map
elements. As a result, you can't easily mock up a map specialization or provide
handles for custom map processing.

The main implication of map outputclass for the base output processing would
seem to be to collect the outputclass values for the topicref and provide them
on the outermost wrapper of the HTML content for the topic. The latter
enhancement would let users style a topic in CSS based on the role played by a
topic within a map. 

The outputclass attribute is close to being a universal attribute -- it applies
to a similarly large list of elements and merits similar treatment. I'd like to
request that we finalize this bug fix at the next meeting.

Thanks,

Erik Hennum