Re: [dita] DITA 2.0: suggest removing @xtrf, @xtrc

Jang, our plan for DITA 2.0 is to remove certain elements and
      attributes, especially if they duplicate functionality (such as
      <topicsetref>) or were ill-advised to begin with (@xtrf and
      @xtrc).

    
If you (or someone else) needs these attributes, you can create
      an attribute specialization for them. These attributes are
      picture-perfect candidates for specializations of @base, because
      are expected to go everywhere.

    

    
Best,

      Kris

      

      Kristen James Eberlein

      Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee

      Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting

      www.eberleinconsulting.com

      +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype)

      

    

    
On 6/22/2016 2:40 AM, 
      wrote:

    

    
      
I am using these attributes for traceability, which entails
        more than just debugging a processor. When comments or changes
        are made to published content, these attributes allow me to
        trace the comment back to the source. We are quickly moving into
        a world where users can talk back in many different ways, and it
        would not be very sensible to kick this mechanism out of the
        standard just because not many people are using its potential
        yet.

      

      

      

      
I agree that authors should not need to deal with these
        attributes and they can be easily hidden in any DITA editing
        environment. This is also true for @class and a bunch of other
        attributes. The fact that authors should not be bothered with
        attributes is therefore not really a convincing reason to scrap
        the attribute from the specs.

      

      

      

      
Jang

      

      

      
Op 22 juni 2016 00:27:12 +02:00, schreef 'DITA TC'
        <>:

      

      
        

          

            

              
Agreed to remove
                    them – their use is likely not interoperable (kind
                    of attributes use in many ways).

              

              
Although there may
                    be people using them but the DITA standard is not
                    currently in the business of processing.

              

              
I have always had
                    the idea however, that the OT should define
                    “preprocessing” validity using DTDs. If this could
                    be handled as a valid modification to the DITA DTDs
                    that would be great.

              

              
This would mean
                    that a DITA repository could store and validate OT
                    preprocessed DITA using DITA specializations such as
                    the debug attributes.

              

              
 

              

              
Jim

              

              
 

              

              
 

              

              

                

                  

                    
From:
                        
                        [mailto:] On Behalf
                          Of Eliot Kimber

                        Sent: June-14-16 11:35 AM

                        To: DITA TC

                        Subject: Re: [dita] DITA 2.0: suggest
                        removing @xtrf, @xtrc

                  

                

                
 

                

                

                  

                    
I
                          agree with Robert and Chris: remove them.

                    

                  

                  

                    
 

                    

                  

                  

                    
Cheers,

                    

                  

                  

                    
 

                    

                  

                  

                    
E.

                    

                  

                  

                    
 

                    

                  

                  

                    

                      
----

                      

                    

                    

                      
Eliot
                            Kimber, Owner

                      

                    

                    

                      
Contrext,
                            LLC

                      

                    

                    

                      
http://contrext.com

                      

                    

                  

                

                

                  
 

                  

                

                

                  
From: dita <>
                        on behalf of Chris Nitchie <>

                        Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 1:25 PM

                        To: Robert Anderson <>,
                        dita <>

                        Subject: Re: [dita] DITA 2.0: suggest
                        removing @xtrf, @xtrc

                

                

                  
 

                  

                

                

                  

                    
I agree.
                          Unlike copy-to, I have used these in my
                          implementations, both for debugging and for
                          traceability from output HTML elements to
                          source XML elements. But they’re not to be
                          used by authors, and so probably shouldn’t be
                          there (but as Robert says, they can still be
                          added by processors for whatever purposes).

                    

                    
 

                    

                    
Chris 

                    

                    
 

                    

                    

                      
From: <>
                          on behalf of Robert D Anderson <>

                          Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 2:19
                          PM

                          To: DITA TC <>

                          Subject: [dita] DITA 2.0: suggest
                          removing @xtrf, @xtrc

                    

                    

                      
 

                      

                    

                    

                      

                        
For
                            DITA 2.0, I'd like to suggest removing @xtrf
                            and @xtrc, also known as the "debug
                            attribute group":

                            http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/dita/v1.3/os/part1-base/langRef/attributes/debugAttributes.html#global-atts

                            

                            Sort of like with last week's discussion of
                            copy-to, these attributes were really
                            defined based on a specific processing model
                            (the step-by-step toolkit style processing),
                            with the idea that debug information can be
                            carried through that sort of process while
                            keeping the DITA itself valid according to
                            the original schema.

                            

                            I don't think that's appropriate for the
                            core DITA specification itself. Applications
                            like DITA-OT can continue to operate in
                            exactly that way, using those exact
                            attributes, without the two of them being
                            part of the specification. I think that
                            would be true of any attribute defined as "intended
                              to store xxxx during intermediate
                              processing", although
                            I'm not aware of any others defined in that
                            way.

                        
                          
                            

                              
                                
Regards,

                                

                                
Robert D. Anderson

                                    DITA-OT lead and
                                      Co-editor DITA
                                        1.3 specification,

                                      Digital Services Group

                              
                              
                                

                                

                              
                            

                            

                              
                                

                                  

                                    

                                  

                                

                              
                            

                            

                              
                                
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