Re: [docbook-publishers] Re: DocBook PublishersSC meeting agenda - 23 Jan2008

Regarding dialog, I noticed that in
the NLM DTD they "did not model an over-arching
container element (such as a dialog or exchange) to contain a complete
exchange between two parties, because there are so many different ways
in which speeches are contained in observed journal samples."
  (see Remarks section of http://dtd.nlm.nih.gov/publishing/tag-library/2.3/index.html).

John.

Scott Hudson <>

01/23/2008 01:40 PM

To

"Hanratty, John (LNG-LON)"
<>

cc

Keith Fahlgren <>,


Subject

[docbook-publishers] Re:  DocBook
PublishersSC meeting agenda - 23 Jan 2008

Verse might work with more content than stanza. Good suggestion!
At this rate, I wonder if we should have the specific poem element, or
have a more general structure that would work for poetry, dialogue, songs,
etc. and subclassed via a type attribute?

As for markup for contentious/variant text, I don't think we want to replicate/replace
TEI. We want to support enough markup to assist publishers, not necessarily
linguistic scholars...

Also, WRT dialogue, I found an interesting development in the HTML 5 spec:

dialog can be used to mark
up a conversation like this:<dialog>

 <dt> Costello

 <dd> Look, you gotta first baseman?

 <dt> Abbott

 <dd> Certainly.

 <dt> Costello

 <dd> Who's playing first?

 <dt> Abbott

 <dd> That's right.

 <dt> Costello

 <dd> When you pay off the first baseman every month, who gets the
money?

 <dt> Abbott

 <dd> Every dollar of it. 

</dialog>

Perhaps we want to use a structure that will map easily
to this new structure in HTML 5?

Best regards,

--Scott

Hanratty, John (LNG-LON) wrote: 

Re. author appearing between
the title and the first stanza: as author is not part of the poem, should
it be here? How about as an attribute of the poem element (I’m sure someone
has already suggested this)?

 

Also, some sources define stanza
more tightly than others: the UK resource http://revisioncentre.co.uk/gcse/english/poetic_terminology.html
defines a stanza as “Four or more rhymed
lines repeated as a unit”. Other (US) sources refer to “a unit of lines
in a poem which usually share a metrical or thematic pattern” (wps.ablongman.com/wps/media/objects/130/133428/glossary.html”).
I don’t know whether the term stanza is therefore suitable for blank verse/epic
poetry such as Milton’s Paradise Lost, which is divided into Books which
are divided (irregularly) into groups of lines of varying size.

 

There is also the common term “verse” in
poetry, which seems to be commonly defined as “a unit of poetry such as
a line or stanza”.

 

I therefore like the TEI approach, as it
seems flexible enough to account for local variations in terminology. The
below is just a quick outline of the structure of Paradise Lost, not an
attempt at a generic model:

 

<poem>

<title>Paradise Lost</title>

<book number =”6”>

<title>Book VI</title>

<summary>Raphael continues to relate…</summary>

<lg group=”verse”>

<line>All
night the dreadless Angel unpursu'd</line>

<line>Through
Heav'ns wide Champain held his way, till Morn,</line>

…

</lg>

<lg>

<line>Servant
of God, well done, well hast thou fought</line>

…

</lg>

</book>

</poem>

 

Note that in the above example, the “argument”
appears in the first edition, but not in all subsequent editions.

 

A final thought – do we need any markup
for contentious readings/variant text? There are many scholarly debates
in this area.

 

From: Scott Hudson [mailto:]

Sent: 22 January 2008 20:31

To: Keith Fahlgren

Cc: ;


Subject: [docbook-publishers] Re: [DocBook-publishers] [docbook-publishers]
DocBook PublishersSC meeting agenda - 23 Jan 2008

 

Interestingly enough, TEI uses
a generic <lg> (line group) container with a type attribute to classify
the groups for things like: stanza, sestet, couplet, quatrain, etc. Perhaps
stanza in my example should be more generic as well?

I'm afraid para might be too big or create formatting issues? Will a linegroup
or individual lines will be used enough to justify new elements, or not?
Are there semantically important distinctions that should be made for lines
of text?

--Scott

  Scott Hudson

  Senior XML Architect

  

 

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Keith Fahlgren wrote: 

On 1/21/08 8:52 AM, Scott Hudson wrote:

  

Regarding agenda item 8, I found an
interesting example at:

http://celtic.benderweb.net/webit/docs/basics/node_4.html

 

This may be simple enough to meet our
needs? What other markup may be 

needed? I think the simple content
model could be defined by:

 

db.poem =

element poem

{

db.poem.attlist,

db.poem.info,

db.stanza*

}

 

db.stanza =

element stanza

{

db.stanza.attlist,

db.line*

}

    

 

line != para?

 

element stanza

{

db.stanza.attlist,

db.para*,

db.formalpara*

}

 

<poem>

  <info>

    <title>Bitter for
Sweet</title>

    <author>

      <firstname>Christina</firstname>

      <surname>Rossetti</surname>

  </info>

  <stanza>

    <para>Summer is
gone with all its roses,</para>

    <para>Its sun and
perfumes and sweet flowers,</para>

    <para>Its warm
air and refreshing showers</para>

    <para>And even
Autumn closes.</para>

  </stanza>

  <stanza>

    <para>Yea, Autumn's
chilly self is going,</para>

    <para>And winter
comes which is yet colder;</para>

    <para>Each day
the hoar-frost waxes bolder</para>

    <para>And the last
buds cease blowing.</para>

  </stanza>

</poem>

 

?

 

 

<poem>

  <info>

    <title>Bitter for
Sweet</title>

    <author>

      <firstname>Christina</firstname>

      <surname>Rossetti</surname>

  </info>

  <stanza>

    <para>Summer is
gone with all its roses,</para>

    <para>Its sun and
perfumes and sweet flowers,</para>

    <para>Its warm
air and refreshing showers</para>

    <para>And even
Autumn closes.</para>

  </stanza>

  <stanza>

    <para>Yea, Autumn's
chilly self is going,</para>

    <para>And winter
comes which is yet colder;</para>

    <para>Each day
the hoar-frost waxes bolder</para>

    <para>And the last
buds cease blowing.</para>

  </stanza>

</poem>

 

Keith

 

  

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