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RE: OASIS LegalDocumentML TC
Monica, Thanks for clarifying the relationship between LegalDoc and previous specifications such as eContracts and Metalex. I expect many people will have this question we should, at a minimum, clarify it in the LegalDoc charter. It may also be helpful for LegalXML to provide a Frequently Asked Questions web page – let’s plan to discuss that on the next Steering Committee call. Jim Cabral MTG Management Consultants, L.L.C. www.mtgmc.com (206) 442-5010 Phone (502) 509-4532 Mobile Helping our clients make a difference in the lives of the people they serve. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From: monica.palmirani [mailto:] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:31 PM To: Hanratty, John (LNG-HBE) Cc: James E Cabral; Clement, Hannah (LNG-HBE); Fabio Vitali Subject: Re: OASIS LegalDocumentML TC Dear John, LegalDocML TC charter is based on Akoma Ntoso (2005) standard ( www.akomantoso.org ) that provided some general principles and pillars to the "brother" CEN Metalex (2007). CEN Metalex is a general legal interchange standard that helps different local/national legal standards to dialogue each other, but it is not descriptive (the main tags are blocks, paragraphs, etc.). Akoma Ntoso/LegalDocML provides descriptive tags: article, title, etc. Akoma Ntoso standard started in 2005 with the support of the UN funds for modelling the parliamentary documents in their main structure, not in the meaning of the legal rules. For modelling the legal rules we have the LegalRuleML OASIS TC just started Jan. 19th. The two levels: structure and legal interpretation of the content are separated in our approach (LegalDocML and LegalRuleML) for permitting a long-term preservation of the structured XML markup and for allowing multiple interpretations (jurisprudence, doctrine, editor comments, book annotations, etc.) from different experts about the same content (interpretation) on the same XML over the time. Akoma Ntoso/LegalDocML follows the Semantic Web stack: URI, XML, RDF, Ontoloy and Rules in a separate stratification of the levels, but interconnected by a URI mechanism. So it is always possible to adopt a different ontology/vocabulary on the top of the same XML document (reuse over the time of the same resources also in Open Data perspective data.gov.uk). Akoma Ntoso is currently used standard by Brazil Senate (in the portoguese version), European Parliament, Parliament of Uruguay, Kenya Law Report, and other institutions. Federal Gazette of Switzerland and Austria Parliament are evaluating Akoma and also the Senate of Italy is producing XML documents Akoma compliant. Akoma Ntoso includes sub-schemas for act/bill, amendments, collection documents like Official Gazette, judgements, parliamentary documents (debates, hansards, minutes, order of the day). http://examples.akomantoso.org/ Now we would like to put all these work in the OASIS TC LegalDocML and also to include contracts for modelling the relationships among law, contract and judgements using a unique standard, useful for the Official Gazzette, for the Department of Justices and also for the Publisher like you. We will take inspiration from eContract for sure because the strong work done on the modelling and vocabulary is really preciouse. Nevertheless, what is different between Akoma/LegalDocML and eContract: - LegalDocML architecture is based on patterns techniques so we have a object oriented approach that help the software tools in the management of the standard. The object oriented approach helps also the interoperability. - LegalDocML separates structure, metadata, semantic but also presentation (no font, pagination, pageOrientation tags like in eContract, the presentation is a matter of the tools and to, eventually ,the hardcopy instance). - eContract has larger scope vs. LegalDocML. eContract was modelled using a database approach (any part is defined: address, agent, firstName, secondName, etc) and in the scenario http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/8415/Scenarios_compilation.html I see more use-cases linked to the legal reasoning (negotiation, ADR/ODR, etc.). We beleave that first goal in LegalDocML is to markup the XML structure and after to put on the top the interpretation/concepts/etc.. So eContract is larger rather than LegalDocML. LegalDoc ML is lighter schema rather than eContract. - A lot of the eContract tags are a taxonomy of concepts and we would like to take separate this concepts (that are US oriented mostly) to the main structure of the contract that is neutral concerning any interpretation. For the concepts we would like to use Ontology, like LKIF or others. But each end-user can use its ontology of the concepts on the base of the specific domain of contract or specific legal tradition (common law, civil law). - eContract is less flexible of Akoma because it embeds in a unique standard: structure, metadata, presentation, vocabulary of the legal concepts and the rules. - eContract doesn't resue several existing ISO standards and not ISO standards (addresses, times, FOAF - people description, etc) so our approach is to reuse existing ontology/vocabulary (Linked Data) using URI mechanism. - it is always possible to pass from eContract XML to LegalDocML-Contract+Ontology. So there are several reasons that lead us to reconsider the eContract work (a sub-part) in a different perspective, more innovative and using modern technology approach, inside to the LegalDocML TC, without to disregard or reject the amazing work done in eContract. Don't hesitate to contact me again for any query you may have. Yours, Monica Il 23/02/2012 07:10, James E Cabral ha scritto: John, As you said, the draft charter for the LegalDocumentML TC has a broad scope still has to be clarified. I do not anticipate products of the LegalDocumentML TC to supercede the eContracts specification any time soon. Monica, can you clarify the anticipated relationship between the LegalDocumentML TC and previous LegalXML specifications, including eContracts? Thanks, Jim Cabral MTG Management Consultants, L.L.C. www.mtgmc.com (206) 442-5010 Phone (502) 509-4532 Mobile Helping our clients make a difference in the lives of the people they serve. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From: Hanratty, John (LNG-HBE) [ mailto: ] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 6:34 AM To: James E Cabral Cc: Clement, Hannah (LNG-HBE) Subject: OASIS LegalDocumentML TC Hi Jim, Events seem to be overtaking us! – I saw the announcement for the new Legal document ML TC: All interested parties are asked to review and comment on a draft charter to establish the OASIS LegalDocumentML Technical Committee. LegalDocML will work to define a standard that will advance worldwide best practices for the use of XML within a Parliaments’, Assembly’s or Congress’ document management processes, within courts’ and tribunals’ judgment management systems, and generally in legal documents including contracts . The work will be based on the Akoma Ntoso-UN project. The TC's goal is to collect requirements from the community of the stakeholders who create, manage and use legislative and legal documents (editors, libraries, public institutions, tribunals, publishers, etc.) in order to extend and refine the standard. LegalDocML TC proposers include representatives of the Africa i-Parliament Action Plan (UN/DESA), ENEA UTT-PMI, European Parliament, and others. Monica Palmirani of CIRSFID, University of Bologna serves as convener. The member comment period for this draft charter closes 22 Feb. http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/tc-announce/201202/msg00001.html LinkedIn Discussion: http://linkd.in/OASIS-LegalDocML This looks pretty far-reaching to me, and bearing in mind the discussions we had around eContracts XML, this could potentially supercede it? – “ and generally in legal documents including contracts ” (my italics). FYI, my US colleague, Laurel Shifrin, has expressed an interest in this initiative also. Do you want to re-schedule the follow-up we were trying to arrange? If I remember rightly, you were planning to contact the American Bar Association, and we provided you with some sample Word docs. It would be great to hear any feedback you have from them on what we’re doing. Best wishes, John Hanratty Content Architecture Manager Content Solutions LexisNexis UK Tel 07780 763204 From: James E Cabral [mailto:] Sent: 26 January 2012 13:47 To: Clement, Hannah (LNG-HBE); Hanratty, John (LNG-HBE) Subject: RE: eContracts Discussion My preferred days are Monday, Tuesday or Thursday. Thanks, Jim Cabral MTG Management Consultants, L.L.C. www.mtgmc.com (206) 442-5010 Phone (502) 509-4532 Mobile Helping our clients make a difference in the lives of the people they serve. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From: Clement, Hannah (LNG-HBE) [mailto:] Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 8:44 AM To: James E Cabral; Hanratty, John (LNG-HBE) Subject: RE: eContracts Discussion Sorry we missed each other Jim. I’ll reschedule for next week (with a US number) Do you have a preferred day? Thanks From: James E Cabral [mailto:] Sent: 26 January 2012 13:28 To: Clement, Hannah (LNG-HBE); Hanratty, John (LNG-HBE) Subject: RE: eContracts Discussion Hannah and John, I joined 10 minutes late. No one else joined after 15 minutes so I disconnected. If you find some time today, please call my mobile below. If you would like to reschedule the conference call, please provide a US number or I can provide an international conference #. Thanks, Jim Cabral MTG Management Consultants, L.L.C. www.mtgmc.com (206) 442-5010 Phone (502) 509-4532 Mobile Helping our clients make a difference in the lives of the people they serve. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From: James E Cabral Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 8:13 AM To: 'Clement, Hannah (LNG-HBE)'; Hanratty, John (LNG-HBE) Subject: RE: eContracts Discussion I had some problems dialing in from the US but I’m now on the line listening to hold music… Jim Cabral MTG Management Consultants, L.L.C. www.mtgmc.com (206) 442-5010 Phone (502) 509-4532 Mobile Helping our clients make a difference in the lives of the people they serve. The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From: Clement, Hannah (LNG-HBE) [mailto:] Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 8:07 AM To: James E Cabral; Hanratty, John (LNG-HBE) Subject: RE: eContracts Discussion Hi James Are you attending the meeting? Thanks ----- Original Appointment ----- From: Clement, Hannah (LNG-HBE) Sent: 09 January 2012 14:50 To: Clement, Hannah (LNG-HBE); 'James E Cabral'; Hanratty, John (LNG-HBE) Subject: eContracts Discussion When: 26 January 2012 13:00-14:00 (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time : Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London. Where: WebEx Moved to Thursday 26th 13.00-14.00 GMT so that James can attend. Hi James John will be off ill until next week so I've moved the meeting until next Wednesday. Hope this works for you Thanks Hannah - + ----- + ----- + ----- + ----- + ----- + ----- + ----- + ----- +- [Do not add or change anything below this line. The information in this section may be replaced with your meeting details after you click Send.] You scheduled this meeting. Meeting Number: 745 616 847 Meeting Password: hannahmeeting ------------------------------------------------------- To start this meeting ------------------------------------------------------- 1. Go to https://reedelsevier.webex.com/reedelsevier/j.php?S=745616847 2. 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Registered in England - Company No. 02746621 LexisNexis is a trading name of REED ELSEVIER (UK) LIMITED - Registered office - 1-3 STRAND, LONDON WC2N 5JR. Registered in England - Company No. 02746621 -- =================================== Associate professor of Legal Informatics School of Law Alma Mater Studiorum Università di Bologna C.I.R.S.F.I.D. http://www.cirsfid.unibo.it/ Palazzo Dal Monte Gaudenzi - Via Galliera, 3 I - 40121 BOLOGNA (ITALY) Tel +39 051 277217 Fax +39 051 260782 E-mail ====================================
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