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Draft Minutes from 2011-01-25 attached
All, here are the real minutes for 2011-01-25. ;-)
Best Regards,
Eric.
Eric Wells
Consulting Engineer
Hitachi Computer Products (America)
Inc.
Cell: +1 415 672 2594
Title: SCA-Assembly - 2011-01-25
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- DRAFT -
Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference
25 JAN 2011
Attendees
Present
Eric WellsHitachi, Ltd.Group Member
Bryan AupperleIBMGroup Member
David BoozIBMGroup Member
Mike EdwardsIBMGroup Member
Simon HoldsworthIBMGroup Member
Diane JordanIBMGroup Member
Mike KaiserIBMGroup Member
Peter NiblettIBMGroup Member
Jeff EstefanJet Propulsion Laboratory:*Group Member
Martin ChapmanOracle CorporationGroup Member
Anish KarmarkarOracle CorporationGroup Member
Rich LevinsonOracle CorporationGroup Member
Ashok MalhotraOracle CorporationGroup Member
Gilbert PilzOracle CorporationGroup Member
Plamen PavlovSAP AG*Group Member
Eric JohnsonTIBCO Software Inc.Group Member
Danny van der RijnTIBCO Software Inc.Group Member
Scott VorthmannTIBCO Software Inc.Group Member
Chairs
Martin Chapman
Mike Edwards
Scribe
Eric Wells
Agenda:1. Intro
Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing
2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/40832/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%20201.-01.1..html
3. Action Items
id=201.-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
id=201.-01.04-1.status=pending Johnson in absentia to create a proposal for the resolution of Assembly-239
id=201.-01.04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained
in wsra
id=201.-01.1.-1.status=done Edwards to take the appropriate steps with TC-Admin to accomplish the progression and review of
CSD07
id=201.-01.1.-2 status=pending Johnson to propose more concretely what the different roles of global vs local channels might
be
4. TC Administrivia
a) Issues Editor status: Discussion
b) LOA Request:
Bob Freund:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.01.msg00045.html
c) Assembly CSD07 status
d)1.2 Assembly spec draft:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.01.msg00044.html
5. Open Issues (1.1.
None
6. New Issues (1.2)
None
7.1.2 Specification Open Issues (1.2)
ASSEMBLY-250: Need an equivalent to "autowire" for the eventing world
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-250
Proposal in JIRA
Follow on discussion from previous meeting
Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.01.msg00041.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.01.msg00030.html
ASSEMBLY-227: Promotion of consumers and producers undermines composability
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-227
Proposal
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.04/msg00044.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37273/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01.issue-227.pdf
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37272/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01.issue-227.doc
Latest discussions:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.1./msg00023.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.1./msg00022.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.1./msg00021.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.1./msg00020.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.1./msg0001..html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.1./msg0001..html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.1./msg0001..html
ASSEMBLY-235: Remotable interface compatibility should not be restricted to a WSDL1.1.mapping
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-235
Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.1./msg00030.html
ASSEMBLY-239: (1.2): Business data filter element needs better name, definition
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-239
Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.1./msg00033.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.1./msg00035.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201.01.msg00034.html
ASSEMBLY-233: Define how Policy works for SCA Eventing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-233
No Proposal
ASSEMBLY-243: Is the default channel configurable?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-243
No proposal
ASSEMBLY-244: How to enable extensibility to multiple bindings on a channel
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-244
Outline proposal in JIRA
ASSEMBLY-245: Adopt the WS-RA Event Description specification to declare SCA Event Types
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-245
Proposal in JIRA
ASSEMBLY-246: Provide Location within SCA Contributions for eventType Declarations
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-246
Proposal in JIRA
ASSEMBLY-247: What are the requirements on an SCA Binding for eventing purposes?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-247
No proposal
ASSEMBLY-248: RFC21.9 wording and conformance statement need to be added for event processing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-248
No proposal
8. AOB
Contents
Topics
[1]
Opening
[2]
Action Items
[3]
Administrivia
[4]
Open Issues 1.1
[5]
Open Issues 1.2
[6]
Assembly-250
[7]
AOB
Table of Resolutions
Table of Action Items
Action Items
Done:
id=2011-01-04-1 status=done Johnson in absentia to create a proposal for the resolution of Assembly-239
id=2011-01-18-1 status=done Edwards to take the appropriate steps with TC-Admin to accomplish the progression and review of CSD07
id=2011-01-18-2 status=done Johnson to propose more concretely what the different roles of global vs local channels might be
Pending:
id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained in wsra
Resolutions
2011-01-25-1: Minutes of 2011-01-18 approved w/o
Minutes
Scribe: Eric Wells
Opening
Roll call 15/18 = 83% Quorate
Agenda
Accepted without changes
Mminutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/40832/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202011-01-18.html
Resolution: Minutes of 2011-01-18 approved w/o
Action Items
Action: id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
Action: id=2011-01-04-1 status=done Johnson in absentia to create a proposal for the resolution of Assembly-239
EricJ:
Proposal for ASSEMBLY-239 completed & waiting for comments
PeterN:
Have provided comments - need wider debate
Action: id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained
in wsra
MikeE:
Waiting for new draft - now available
Action: id=2011-01-18-1 status=done Edwards to take the appropriate steps with TC-Admin to accomplish the progression and review of
CSD07
MikeE:
OASIS Admin has ack'd
MartinC:
Robin is ctahcing up for Mary - Also some questions regarding ref's
Action: id=2011-01-18-2 status=done Johnson to propose more concretely what the different roles of global vs local channels might
be
Administrivia
Issues Editor
EricW:
Volunteers to help out here - needs some guidance
LOA request from Bob Freund
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00045.html
Cannot grant from today - need 1 weeks notice
No objections - LOA approved from 2011-02-01 tru 2011-02-22
Assembly CSD07 status
OASIS Admin working on this (see above)
1.2 Assembly spec draft:http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00044.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00044.html
AnishK describes work done - notes that 1.2 needs bringing in line with 1.1 (CSD07)
MartinC:
All issues/comments/notes resolved/removed?
AnishK:
One remains - related to text added at F2F - some questions regarding what should have been added
...Will raise new issue in JIRA
Open Issues 1.1
None
Open Issues 1.2
Assembly-250
ASSEMBLY-250: Need an equivalent to "autowire" for the eventing world
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-250
Proposal in JIRA
Follow on discussion from previous meeting
E-mail from several TC members
<MartinC>
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00041.html
Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00041.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00030.html
EricJ:
Reviews E-mail
DannyV noted for roll
EricJ:
Disconnect between different views of how channels used
<anish>
aren't we moving away from the main issue at hand, which is whether there is a need for auto-wire. I understand that there
are some related issues, but the current discussion is about getting rid (or problems wrt) global channels -- which is a very
different issue.
<MartinC>
what issue are we talking about, this isnt about autowire
<MartinC>
why are components at a domain level connected to a global channel different from coponents in a composite connected to a
local channel
<MartinC>
ihmo there is no difference
EricJ gives detailed argument about differences between global and local channel usage
PeterN:
Noted some minor issues (connection to non-existant channels, "/" in names. etc)
...agreed that some items not fully thought through
...most importantly notion of "topic"
...can(will) use global channels to connect to external JMS
...also for attachment of policy
PeterN:
Private channel (proper name no local) not intended to connect to external JMS
MikeE:
Not how things currently defined - can be used to external JMS
AnishK:
Never viewed private channels that way - always as local
...whether channel is bound to external JMS doesn't limit other eternal producer/consumers
AnishK:
Autowire can't be reliably determined
MartinC:
Channels all have same semantics - only about visibility
...no difference between global/local channels as far as capabilities - only visibility
...e.g. child can't access parent channels
...Don't see how the current discussion relates to autowire
<Peter Niblett>
Line 2815 says..
Channels within a composite used as an implementation are private to the components within that composite. These private
channels can only be the targets for producers existing within the same composite as the channel. Private channels can only
be sources for consumers existing withing the same composite as the channel. An SCA runtime MAY support the use of private
channels
MikeE:
Seems current proposal is heading in a different direction than currently defined
<Peter Niblett>
It seems very strange to have these sentences and yet also allow these channels to be bound to external JMS topics
<Peter Niblett>
The intent clearly is to keep the comms private to the composite
...that is separate debate - currently only about visibility of channels
<anish>
peter, i read that in the context of SCA -- it is not available to the components outside the composite -- in that sense it
is private to the composite. The fact that there are channel bindings imply that any channel can be bound to an existing pub-sub
system
<anish>
peter, if this causes confusion, i think we should change the wordings to replace private with local -- I take back what I
said on the call -- the spec, obviously, does use the word 'private'
DannyV:
Agreed this isn't autowire - but decided that these issues need addressing before others make sense
...seems that view of channel varies dependig on top-down vs bottom-up design
...this should not be the case - should look same no matter how desgin is done.
<MartinC>
sounds like a new issue that needs to be raised: change concept of global channel
EricJ:
Not really trying to go in a new direction - pointing out that lots of things are fully defined
<Peter Niblett>
anish, I'm arguing that we used the word "private" for a reason.. it is to allow the event flow to be encapsulated within
the composite. It's counterintuitive to have something that does that, but which also allows events to flow in and out in
a completely unmodelled fashion. Suppose I have two composites with two different private channels.. if I bind them to the
same JMS destination then events will flow between them. Even if they are bound to different JMS destinations events might
flow betweeh them, because who knows what kind of JMS hook up is going on behind the scenes. It seems to me that binding to
externally visible JMS destinations is an important concept, but needs to be kept separate from this private channel idea
AshokM:
Not making any progress on this - we need to move forward.
<Peter Niblett>
I am happy with binding global channels to JMS topics (argument is that these JMS things are outside the assembly and therefore
global to it). Are there some use cases that this fails to support?
...same points being made again and again
MartinC:
Agree need to restict to issues being discussed - if there are broader issues then address separately
AnishK:
Can see that autowire simplifies some things but fraught with problems
<MartinC>
peter, we (oracle) dont want events encapulated within a composite otherwise the sce runtime will have to police these private
channels and not allow messages to escape
<anish>
peter, i don't have a problem with the model you are proposing, but what we have now, we allow bindings on global as well
as local channels
<anish>
if we want to change that we should talk about it
<Peter Niblett>
that's why the spec says private channels are RFC 2119 OPTIONAL
<MartinC>
i think we are forgetting what the spec says
<MartinC>
;-)
<Mike Edwards>
I think bindings on Global channels are fine and I don't see a problem with them
<anish>
mikeE, i believe peter does not like bindings on local channels
<Mike Edwards>
I would prefer local channels to use bindings (if any) which are non-specific - ie like <binding.jms/> which simply says "use
JMS for the protocol, but with "private" locally created resources like Queues or Topics that are left to the runtime to allocate
<Mike Edwards>
- we have that situation for use of jms in services / references
<anish>
i don't have a problem with that. the issue is once you use JMS, you cannot necessarily guarantee that noone else outside
of SCA is participating -- which I'm ok with, but peter seems to think that this is a bad idea
<Mike Edwards>
true, unless you secure the JMS resources in some way
<Mike Edwards>
same is true of almost any other protocol that you might use
<Mike Edwards>
it is up to the SCA runtime to determine the level of assurance that it will provide
<anish>
+1 to that. I'm of the opinion that we can only talk about what happens in the SCA domain/components/composites
<anish>
if the deployer/system does any bridging, all bets are off wrt what events are produced, by whom and who sees them
<Mike Edwards>
I agree with one exception - if there are Filters expressed then they should be honoured by however the Channel is implemented
by the SCA runtime
<Mike Edwards>
which ain't really an exception - its a demand on the SCA runtime implementation
<Mike Edwards>
I think that if the assembly says that only certain Event types pass, that should really be the case...
<anish>
i agree -- that would be part of the SCA contract
<anish>
wrt sca components
<Mike Edwards>
+1
AOB
Straggler roll - DannyV
<MartinC>
roll is fixed
<MartinC>
thanks ericw
Martin - do you have the roll please?
<MartinC>
roll at http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/events.php?day=1295953200
Thanks Martin
COB 9:02AM PST
[End of Minutes]
Formatted on 2011-01-27 at 16:54:29 GMT-8
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