Re: [sca-bpel] Formatted minutes of 2008-05-15 telcon

This time with the roll.

-Anish
--

Anish Karmarkar wrote:
> Attached.
> Thanks to Martin for scribing.
> Note: these minutes do not contain the roll -- so we can't approve them 
> (yet).
> 
> -Anish
> -- 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
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> OASIS Logo <http://www.oasis-open.org/>
> 
> 
>   - DRAFT -
> 
> 
>   OASIS SCA-BPEL TC telcon
> 
> 
>     15 MAY 2008
> 
> 
>       Attendees
> 
> Present
>     TBD
> Chair
>     Sanjay Patil
> Scribe
>     Martin Chapman
> Agenda:
>     http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200805/msg00009.html
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>       Contents
> 
> <#topics>Topics
>     [1] <#d1e123>  Agenda 
>     [2] <#d1e128>  minutes 
>     [3] <#d1e136>  action items 
>     [4] <#d1e165>  new issues 
>     [5] <#d1e169>  Status of JIRA 
>     [6] <#d1e177>  Issue 20 
>     [7] <#d1e204>  issue 15 
> Table of Resolutions <#resolutions>
> Table of Action Items <#ais>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>       Action Items
> 
> New:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>       Resolutions
> 
>     * 2008-05-15-1 <#d1e200>: Issue 20 resolved by proposal at
>       http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200805/msg00016.html
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>       Minutes
> 
> Scribe: Martin Chapman
> 
> <Sanjay>
> Agenda -
> 1. Roll Call
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/roster.php
> 2. Appointment of scribe
> Scribe list attached below
> 3. Agenda bashing
> 4. Approval of may 8, 2008 minutes
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200805/msg00007.html
> 5. Action items review
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/action_items.php
> a) AI #0021
> Chairs - to follow up with Mary to post the CD docs to OASIS repository
> b) AI #0035 (Due date 5/
> Dieter - Create a proposal for Issue 16 - Ambiguous Service Resolution
> c) AI #0037
> Anish - update the assembly RDDL file, file names and the references in 
> the spec
> d) AI #0039
> Anish - Provide an amendment to Danny's proposal to resolve issue 20.
> 6. New Issues
> NONE
> 7. Status of JIRA
> Update from issues editor
> 8. Issue Discussion
> a) Issue 20 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-20
> SCA-BPEL spec can not require bpel:mustUnderstand to be true
> (proposal in JIRA)
> b) Issue 15 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-15
> TITLE- Define Conformance Targets
> SUBMITTED BY- Martin Chapman
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00000.html
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00014.html
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00048.html
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00001.html
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00021.html
> Review of section 2.1 from CD-01-rev3 at
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00026.html
> c) Issue 18 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-18
> TITLE- Need to rewrite the SCA-BPEL specifications with RFC-2119
> keywords/statements
> SUBMITTED BY- KHANDERAO KAND
> d) Issue 16 http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-16
> TITLE- Ambigous Service Resolution
> SUBMITTED BY- Dieter Koenig
> 9. AOB
> <Mike Edwards>
> your line is very noisy Martin
> 
> 
>       Agenda
> 
>  
> no additions. Approved
> 
> 
>       minutes
> 
>  
> Approval of may 8, 2008 minutes
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200805/msg00007.html
>  
> no comments and no objections to approving
> 
> 
>       action items
> 
>  
> a) AI #0021
> Chairs - to follow up with Mary to post the CD docs to OASIS repository
>  
> Ongoing
>  
> b) AI #0035 (Due date 5/
> Dieter - Create a proposal for Issue 16 - Ambiguous Service Resolution
>  
> extended complietion date to may 29. Ongoing
>  
> c) AI #0037
> Anish - update the assembly RDDL file, file names and the references in 
> the spec
>  
> Need to touch base with Ivana on the BPEL RDDL file
>  
> Done
>  
> d) AI #0039
> Anish - Provide an amendment to Danny's proposal to resolve issue 20.
>  
> Done
> 
> 
>       new issues
> 
>  
> No new issues recieved
> 
> 
>       Status of JIRA
> 
>  
> is up to date with current status.
> Anish:
> need to upload a snapshot to the TC pages
>  
> Mike R will do
> 
> 
>       Issue 20
> 
>  
> Issue 20 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-20
> SCA-BPEL spec can not require bpel:mustUnderstand to be true
> (proposal in JIRA)
> <anish>
> amendment: 
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200805/msg00016.html
> <Danny>
> Sanjay - can you mark me present, please.
> <Sanjay>
> yes Danny
> Martin:
> does the extension need a name?
> <Danny>
> not accoriding to ws-bpel syntax
> Anish moves to accept proposal in msg00016.html to resolve issue 20. 
> Danny 2nds
>  
> No objcections to unanimous consent, motion passes.
> *Resolution: *Issue 20 resolved by proposal at 
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200805/msg00016.html
>  
> Issue 20 can be moved to resolved state
> 
> 
>       issue 15
> 
>  
> Issue 15 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-15
> TITLE- Define Conformance Targets
> SUBMITTED BY- Martin Chapman
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00000.html
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00014.html
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00048.html
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00001.html
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00021.html
> Review of section 2.1 from CD-01-rev3 at
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00026.html
> <anish>
> issue 18 http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200804/msg00026.html
> Mike R:
> walk thru of section 2.1 update proposal
> <Danny>
> ". A simple static analysis of the control flow, which does not involve 
> determining the values of any expressions, is used
> to determine which role can send the first message."
>  
> thanks
> Sanjay:
> has been a dicussion on static analysis so may need to raise a separate 
> issue.
> <anish>
> i don't like 'component type generator' and 'component' as the 
> conformance targets
> <anish>
> the targets we should have are specific files or runtime
> <anish>
> i don't know what i can do with a 'component type generator' target
>  
> well we can talk about elements being targets i.e. portions of documents
> <anish>
> sure, but the target is still the composite
> <Danny>
> I disagree. Otherwise we get all kinds of passive syntax
> <anish>
> this is/was done in WS-I, and the syntax was not bad
> Danny:
> need a discussion about static ananlysis and whether its an issue
> Martin:
> Component Type generator is not a traget we should be talking about
> Martin:
> its not something we wish to attach conformance requiremenst to
> Anish:
> hard to see attaching tests to a component type generator. prefer 
> talking about the sca runtime
> Mike E:
> sympathize with not liking the component type generator.
> <anish>
> how about 'the RUNTIME MUST generate the component type that ...'
>  
> there is a notial/virtual data structure being produced and we can talk 
> about production rules without talking about
> generators
> Mike R:
> didnt seem appropriate for an artifact nor a run-time
> <Dieter Koenig>
> how about "a component type referencing this process MUST contain an SCA 
> service ..."?
> <Mike Edwards>
> "the introspected component type MUST...."
> Mike R:
> sca runtime is too late in the process in this case
> Anish:
> suggested sca runtime could do this
> Anish:
> hard to mandate when checks are made or virtual data structure is created
> Mike R:
> does the compontent type generator imply any time in the process
> Anish:
> no but implying targeting a particular part of the run-time which is 
> hard to isolate
> Dieter:
> focus on the artifacts and the rules between them, and not fucuss of 
> runtimes and generators
> Martin C:
> +1 to Dieter
> Sanjay:
> component type generator may be good for ease of writting but may give 
> wrong impression for how to implement
> Sanjay:
> with the virtual artifact it doesnt actually exist, however it shoudl be 
> testable somehow
> Mike E:
> it is still prefectly testable as you can depend on certain values being 
> present. This is valid for any technology
> that does introspection and is not just specific to BPEL
> Mike R:
> something should be claiming to pass a test
> Mike R:
> cant have a non existing artifact to test
> Mike R:
> doesnt imply any point in time the generator must execute
> <anish>
> mikeR, what did you think of my suggestion in the chat?
> Martin C:
> generator is too virtual
> Mike E:
> how is a generator more testable than a virtual file
> Mike R:
> entities at any point in time can claim to be a generator
> Mike E:
> not real enough
> Anish:
> can we substitute runtime for generator
> Mike R:
> would prefer the runtime approach to Mike E and Dieter's approach
> <Dieter Koenig>
> i can write a component type with notepad - what is the runtime in this 
> case?
> Sanjay:
> who do we make happy talking about genererors
>  
> dos?
> <anish>
> dieter, that is a sidefile, i assume, in which case it is a valid target
> <anish>
> any such file has to be merged with things like annotations, extensions
> <anish>
> which would generate a virtual CT
> <anish>
> so, RUNTIME is a target, SCDL is a target, CT side file is a target, 
> BPEL process is a target
>  
> Motions to adopt: 
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00000.html
>  
> Ran out of time so motion dies
>  
> Aob: stragler roll call
> 
> [End of Minutes]
> Formatted on 2008-05-21 at 14:21:40 GMT-7
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Minutes formatted by Schreiber, a collection of XSLT stylesheets by Bob 
> Freund modeled after David Booth's scribe
> 
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