RE: [smartgrid-interest] Energy Market Information Exchange Charter- supporters wanted; ready for submission to create Technical Committee

Brian,

 

The questions you raise concerning REST pertain
to the description of the “service” that conveys the information
and not necessarily to the information that is conveyed through that
service.  For example in the current OpenADR spec there is am XML
definition for the the so called EventState.  Furthermore there are
specifications for how that EventState is conveyed using REST, SOAP, and BACnet
web services.  Each of those differ in how the service for conveying the
EventState is specified even though the information that is transported through
each service is the same.

 

 

-ed koch

 

 

From: Marty Burns
[mailto:] 

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009
6:36 AM

To: 'Brian Frank'; 'Considine,
Toby (Campus Services IT)'

Cc: 'William Cox';
; 'Toby Considine'

Subject: RE: [smartgrid-interest]
Energy Market Information Exchange Charter - supporters wanted; ready for
submission to create Technical Committee

 

Brian,

 

Pricing information
will need to be conveyed by several protocols – from Web Services to
compact binary SCADA. As such, we have to separate the information model from
its conveyance. OASIS, I believe, will help to define the information model and
at least one Web Services means. However, I think visibility of the need to
convey the same semantics in other syntax’s should help guide the effort.

 

I am a fan of the
“REST” ful type of modeling, as I understand it currently in a very
limited way, in that it exposes rich information models with generic basic
services to accomplish action.

 

Cheers,

Marty

 

Dr. Martin J. Burns

President

Hypertek, Inc.

14624 Country Creek Lane,

North Potomac, MD 20878

P - 1(301)315-9101

C - 1(301)257-9101

 

 

 

From: Brian Frank
[mailto:] 

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009
9:26 AM

To: Considine, Toby (Campus
Services IT)

Cc: William Cox;
; Toby Considine

Subject: Re: [smartgrid-interest]
Energy Market Information Exchange Charter - supporters wanted; ready for
submission to create Technical Committee

 

My understanding as Bill said that this specification is about
*modeling* - nothing to do with transactions or protocols.

 

If that is true, then the two most important aspects of modeling are:

  - type system

  - naming system

 

The type system is how we define data structures
and contractual definitions.  I will assume that the "type
system" will be XML Schema since it is the safe choice (despite being
quite poor as a modeling type system).

 

The naming system is how we identify entities and reference them.
 Any sophisticated model requires referencing things.  Independent of
the protocols used, RESTful means that we leverage URIs for naming. 

 

Both modeling and naming are areas which oBIX has really nailed.
 But it doesn't sound like oBIX is being considered for the model - which
is fine and to be expected.  But both the type system and naming system
still matter a great deal, especially how they will interact with the overall
system.

 

 

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:59 AM, Considine, Toby (Campus Services IT)
<>
wrote:

Restful interactions have their place. As APIs at a
distance, they are clean and predictable. As part of transactional systems and
open bidding markets, one needs the rest of the WS Transaction infrastructure.
As part of a massively distributed delayed environment that may involve long
running workflows, one may need a multi-document messaging based format. 

 

Zooming in on REST is a little like zooming in on UDP,
only a couple layers up. There are times when RESTful connections are exactly
what one needs. There are times when they are not.

 

tc

"A man should never be ashamed to own that he has
been in the wrong, which is but saying ... that he is wiser today than
yesterday." -- Jonathan Swift

 

  
  
Toby Considine

  
Chair, OASIS oBIX TC

  Facilities Technology Office

University of North Carolina

Chapel Hill, NC

  
  
  
  

  
  
  

  
Email: Toby.Considine@ unc.edu

  Phone: (919)962-9073 

  

  
http://www.oasis-open.org 

  
blog: www.NewDaedalus.com

  
 

 

 

From: Brian Frank [mailto:] 

Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009
8:42 AM

To: William Cox

Cc: ;
Toby Considine

Subject: Re: [smartgrid-interest]
Energy Market Information Exchange Charter - supporters wanted; ready for
submission to create Technical Committee

 

 

Energy Market Information Exchange is an XML vocabulary to express
price and characteristics, so the means of communicating is not part of the
charter.

 

I can see
how that is nice in theory, but I don't understand how that works in practice.
 At the very least any sophisticated modeling requires naming things.
 And naming things typically implies a way to reference those named
things.

 

So I
guess my question is - will the model be RESTful in that "things" are
named and referenced with URIs?