It's all very simple from my standpoint:
Federated Trust Network
Federated Registry / Repository
Customized Executable Business Process which operate on those federated
networks.....
Goran Zugic wrote:
> David, I do not want to argue about the history. SOA (Web Services,
> ebXML, and many other SOA related concepts, standards, etc.) has not
> suddenly emerged from nowhere.
>
> Suresh, if I understand correctly your point, you think that the
> business process modeling, grouping and taxonomy of processes are
> important SOA enablers. I completely agree with you. It is very
> important but not the only aspect of the entire SOA picture. What I am
> also interested in is the SOA enterprise architecture and real alignment
> between the business and technology. No marketing hype but real stuff.
> These are my questions. Not only for you but for everybody on this
> thread. I am just using these questions to continue with discussion. Do
> not worry I will provide my answers later and I hope that you will keep
> adding new questions as well. The more questions and the more
> discussions trying to form answers the better. I am sure we will not
> change the world but at least we can start to communicate more often and
> exchange ideas.
>
> 1. How do we integrate business processes we model as services and
> technology? Here I mean a real automatic integration without army of
> developers working on the "SOA Enterprise Architecture" to implement
> processes just modeled or to implement changes just introduced. To me
> that kind of architecture is not SOA. That is old school which we
> shortly talked about in our history introduction.
>
> 2. How do we make SOA agile? Again automatic implementation of changes
> without coding and both static and dynamic.
>
> 3. How do we model and support business process semantics? Not just
> message exchanges and message routing.
>
> 4. How do we use standards and support standard convergence?
>
> 5. What is our SOA Reference Model?
>
> 6. What is our complete SOA reference architecture?
>
> 7. Do we have an SOA methodology and what the SOA methodology is all about?
>
> 8. What are our SOA best practices?
>
> 9. What are the most critical SOA missing points and failures so far and
> how to fix them or not repeat them?
>
> 10. What is the overall OASIS plan with regards to SOA, SOA TCs related
> work and their relationship?
>
> 11. How can we start to work together and use each others "products"?
>
> 12. How can we (TCs and OASIS) convince more leading vendors to be
> involved in the SOA specs development and start using SOA specs we are
> working on?
>
>
> I think that we should keep the entire original content of the messages
> for the completeness of the thread.
>
> Goran
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Hungenahally, Suresh <mailto:>
> *To:* David Webber (XML) <mailto:> ;
> <mailto:> ; Duane
> Nickull <mailto:> ; John Hardin
> <mailto:> ; Jones, Steve
> <mailto:>
> *Cc:*
> <mailto:> ;
> <mailto:> ;
> <mailto:> ;
> <mailto:> ;
>
> <mailto:> ;
> <mailto:> ;
>
> <mailto:> ;
>
> <mailto:>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:06 PM
> *Subject:* RE: [ebsoa] RE: [fwsi] RE: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real
> SOA challenge?
>
> Hi,
>
> I am new to the group. Please bear with me if I do not understand
> how this works.
>
> Agree 100% with David Webber, the key is in this point that David
> makes "So much for history - no need to dwell there - the challenge
> now is to bring *real business enabled XML-driven processes and SOA
> to fruition."*
> **
> Which means we need to clearly address:
>
> 1. SOA and processes integration by broad domains (Finance, Telco,
> Transport, Defence, Government etc.) We could use models such as the
> eTOM as a starting point.
> 2. Establish a standard grouping of processes within the business
> domains
> 3. Then look at which of these can be enabled using XML.
> 4. In Australia the DOMEDI group did similar work in the Transport
> domain (thouogh for a different purpose)
> 5. Finally a taxonomy of the business, processes, enablers and XML
> transactions
>
> Regards. Suresh
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> Dr. Suresh Hungenahally| *Capgemini* | Melbourne
> Senior Manager
> 477 Collin St. Melbourne 3000 Australia
> T. + 61 3 9613 3343 | M. + 61 402 408 816| F. + 61 3 9613 3333.
> E.
> <mailto:> | www.capgemini.com
> <http://www.capgemini.com>
>
> *Join the Collaborative Business Experience*
> ________________________________________________________
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* David Webber (XML) [mailto:]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 16 November 2005 2:55 PM
> *To:* <mailto:>;
> Duane Nickull; John Hardin; Jones, Steve
> *Cc:* ; ;
> ; ;
> ; ;
> ;
> ;
> *Subject:* Re: [ebsoa] RE: [fwsi] RE: [soa-rm] RE: [ebsoa] The real
> SOA challenge?
>
> Goran,
>
> While I like what you say vis SOA here - I have to take you to task
> on history ; -)
>
> The ebXML foundation came out of the work of the XML/edi Group
> aligned with the work of CEFACT on ooEDI.
>
> It completely breaks the mold on EDI. Yes - things like ebMS are
> founded on EDI+ communications - but the core of the ebXMl stack -
> registry-centric XML-driven collaboration - and the notion of the
> "Fusion of Five" is designed to sweep away the old EDI practices.
> Unfortunately XML as implemented today is nothing more than a
> slightly better EDI. The whole XML revolution is yet to truely take
> hold.
>
> As for web services - this was a shameless grab by IBM and Microsoft
> - attempting to be first to market ahead of ebXML with concepts that
> in essence are nothing more than "real-time EDI" - with all the same
> strengths and weaknesses of the
> original real-time EDI implementations - just using XML and the
> internet instead of EDI and private networks.
>
> So much for history - no need to dwell there - the challenge now is
> to bring real business enabled XML-driven processes and SOA to fruition.
>
> Cheers, DW
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> For example, Web Services are initiated with an idea of
> services introduced by Microsoft 6-7 years ago and this idea has
> been formed from distributed computing and component-based
> computing ideas and "learn on mistakes" lessons from many
> organizations in 80s and 90s; ebXML is mostly based on EDI ideas
> and "learn on mistakes" lessons, etc.
>
> This message contains information that may be privileged or
> confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is
> intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not
> the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print,
> retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any
> part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify
> the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message.
>
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| john c hardin
| Chief Technology Officer
| http://www.maphin.net
| 606.598.7353 office
| 606.813.4316 cell
| mailto:
|
| Chair - OASIS ebSOA Technical Committee
| http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa
|
|
| "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the
| image of a global village."
|
| Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
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