RE: [soa-rm] thoughts on public review

Hi Ken,

 

   Great questions. In my experience, and in reviewing
the comment list archives since their inception, I don’t see any change
in the number of comments posted whether it was by web form or a
subscription-based email. In general I don’t think we get many outside
reviewers. A few specs seem to garner lots of attention, but most TCs find that
the majority of comments come from within the TC itself. We explicitly changed
the TC Process to encourage TC members to provide the TC Administrator with a
list of additional mailing lists where the review notice should be posted, as
well as to encourage members to forward it within their communities that I
wouldn’t have access to. Any and all suggestions you might have around
increasing comments are welcome – we’re always trying to improve the
process to help make the work the best it can be! 

 

Mary

 

From: Ken Laskey
[mailto:] 

Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 8:20 PM

To: Mary McRae

Cc: 'Francis McCabe'; 

Subject: Re: [soa-rm] thoughts on public review

 

If I want to comment but have no desire to be subscribed to
yet another mailing list, this would be a significant deterrent.  While
the subscribe process itself is not difficult, the need to go through a
multi-step process would be a non-starter.

 

My personal preferences aside, the real question is whether
this is a real deterrent.  For typical TCs, how many people specifically
subscribe just to provide comments?  If the answer is a reasonable (TBD)
number, then forget my comment because it's proved wrong.  If the answer
is usually few to none, has the comment rate dropped since this procedure was
put in place.  If yes, have we made ourselves so safe as to be overly
insulated from the world we wish to engage?

 

Ken

 

On May 30, 2008, at 7:02 PM, Mary McRae wrote:

I doubt it J

 

First, if we have an email list that doesn’t require a
subscription/acknowledgement, we’re pretty much guaranteed it’ll be
full of spam. Secondly, there will be no way to know whether a comment that
appears in the email archives had an accompanying acceptance or not. Once
you’ve subscribed to the list, there’s no need to re-subscribe for
additional comments. If you’re going to review, you could subscribe to
the list right away and then have the hassle-free approach when you actually
have something to submit. ??

 

Mary

 

 

 

From: Ken
Laskey [mailto:] 

Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008
6:47 PM

To: 

Cc: 'Francis McCabe';


Subject: Re: [soa-rm]
thoughts on public review

 

Hi Mary,

 

Thanks for jumping in.

 

Looking at my own reaction to
supplying comments, once I decide I have something I want to say, I need to get
that first comment in ASAP before I get otherwise diverted.  If there are
multiple steps to that first comment, you have a decent chance of losing me.
 If I've built some momentum in entering comments, I'm more likely to put
up with annoyances.  

 

Here's a suggestion: We accept
comments with no registration.  In response, we send a thank you with a
note saying that in order to process the comment, we need you to respond this
once accepting the IPR commitment.  If we get the commitment (likely if
all that is required is putting an X in the needed spot on returning), then
we've got the commitment and can use the comment.  Otherwise, nothing
substantive from the comment will be used.  If possible, I'd like to
consider what the comment says, but if necessary, I would discard it.

 

Would that satisfy the lawyers?

 

Ken

 

On May 30, 2008, at 6:13 PM, Mary
McRae wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

  I figure I might as well jump in before being formally
asked. ;-)

 

  Know that the OASIS Board of Directors is extremely
concerned about protecting the work of our technical committees and ensuring
that IP is not contaminated in any way by external contributions. Is it the
subscribing to the comment list that you view as onerous, or the having to
agree to the terms and conditions? We previously had a comment form, but the
spammers figured out how to attack it and many comment lists were inundated with
nothing but junk. The comment form presented the terms and conditions along
with language that by submitting the comment you were agreeing to the terms. Of
course someone could have used a fake email address/name, so this really
wasn’t much of a guarantee. So we switched to the email list, which by
requiring subscription solves two problems: at least you know the email address
is real since they must acknowledge the subscription, and that acknowledgement
also contains the terms and conditions and their acceptance.

 

 We (OASIS staff) would like to (and will hopefully)
implement another comment mechanism, but must still ensure that the contributor
agrees to the IPR terms of the TC. As we begin to migrate some functionality
away from Kavi (the OASIS Library and/or TC Public Pages will be the first
changes you will start to see as 2008 draws to a close, we will take another
look at how comments are/can be submitted.

 

 With regard to TC members, they should post their comments
directly to the TC list; there is no need for them to agree to the IPR terms as
this was already a condition of participation in the TC itself.

 

Regards,

 

Mary

 

From: Ken
Laskey [mailto:] 

Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008
5:46 PM

To: Francis McCabe

Cc: 

Subject: Re: [soa-rm]
thoughts on public review

 

My thought is if we can raise it
now and all the stars align, maybe we'll be able to get a less restricted
review before we are final.  Right now, it is most likely we'll be talking
with ourselves.

 

I assume as a SC we can at least
get unrestricted comments from the entire TC membership.  Correct?

 

Ken

 

On May 30, 2008, at 5:37 PM,
Francis McCabe wrote:

Even if we did, and even if the
board agreed, it would be months before any such action could take effect. This
is discounting the leaden footsteps of the lawyers.

 

However, I can raise this to the
TAB.

 

Frank

 

On May 30, 2008, at 2:33 PM, Ken
Laskey wrote:

 

I've been thinking about the RA
public review and while I appreciate the IPR concerns, I'm thinking we may want
to ask the OASIS Board to consider a less onerous comment procedure.  It is to our benefit and that of
all doing work at OASIS to get the widest exposure and public input possible,
and the current procedure would certainly discourage all (including OASIS
non-TC members) but the most dedicated from providing comments.  I really don't want to see major
issues when we've done the work and come up for a final vote and there isn't
preregistration for commenting.

 

Ken

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken Laskey

MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934

7515 Colshire Drive             
          fax:        703-983-1379

McLean VA 22102-7508

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken Laskey

MITRE Corporation, M/S H305  
  phone:  703-983-7934

7515 Colshire Drive   
                    fax:        703-983-1379

McLean VA 22102-7508

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken Laskey

MITRE Corporation, M/S H305  
  phone:  703-983-7934

7515 Colshire Drive   
                    fax:        703-983-1379

McLean VA 22102-7508

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken Laskey

MITRE Corporation, M/S H305      phone: 703-983-7934

7515 Colshire Drive  
                      fax:  
    703-983-1379

McLean VA 22102-7508