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Re: [wsbpel-spec-edit] RE: WS BPEL URIs for RDDLs, WSDLs, Schemas,etc
Hi all,
I have no preferences in terms of file name. Something like
"wsbpel-v20-rddl.html" is good enough for me.
Thanks!
Regards,
Alex Yiu
Mary McRae wrote:
Hi Diane,
The only outstanding issue is
the use of the filename "index.html". This name is reserved by OASIS.
Instead, the RDDL file should be named something like
"wsbpel-v20-rddl.html" -- it should at least contain the string 'rddl'
and end in '.html'; other than that I think we're ready to go!
Regards,
Mary
From: Diane
Jordan [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:04 PM
To: Robin Cover; ;
Cc:
Subject: WS BPEL URIs for RDDLs, WSDLs, Schemas, etc
Hi,
Today the TC approved a new
committee draft and the start of public review. Alex asked that I
follow up with you to confirm that the approach he described below is
ok.
Please let us know.
Regards, Diane
IBM Emerging Internet Software Standards
(919)254-7221 or 8-444-7221, Mobile: 919-624-5123, Fax 845-491-5709
----- Forwarded by
Diane Jordan/Raleigh/IBM on 08/23/2006 11:02 PM -----
Alex Yiu
<>
08/16/2006 09:46 PM
To
Robin Cover
<>
cc
"Marin, Mike"
<>, Thomas Schulze
<>, Diane Jordan/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, Mary
McRae <>, bpel spec
<>, Prasad Yendluri
<>, Alex Yiu <>
Subject
Re:
[wsbpel-spec-edit] Re: URIs for RDDLs, WSDLs, Schemas, etc
Hi Robin,
Thanks for the quick reply.
If I understand your email correctly, a file arrangement based option
[c] listed in my previous email should be OK to OASIS convention. Let
me re-iterate the details of file arrangement again here:
For the following 5 URLs (with or without the trailing '/'),
transparent ('raw') directory listings will be shown:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/executable
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/plnktype
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/serviceref
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/varprop
There will be 5 XSDs uploaded to the above directory locations as well.
Similarly, the following URL (with or without the trailing '/'),
transparent ('raw') directory listings will be shown:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0
In the above "/wsbpel/2.0" directory, we will have the following files:
a PDF file for the spec text
a HTML file for the spec text
an index.html (which is an XHTML+RDDL
document) to document all resources provided by this spec (e.g. PDF +
HTML + 5 XSDs). And, we document the 5 XSD resources, we may use the
following pattern:
(Suggested) prefix | Namespace URI | Schema
Location URI
I hope I document our current intent of directory usage right. If the
above usage is acceptable to OASIS convention, please confirm.
And, I don't have a strong opinion to add additional XHTML+RDDL
documents in 5 XSD directories. One way or the other is OK to me.
Thanks!
Regards,
Alex Yiu
Robin Cover wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Alex Yiu wrote:
Hi Robin,
(BTW, I work in OracleJSP engine for a number of years, before starting
doing BPEL work. Hence, I have some basic knowledge on Apache
integration and includiing its mod.)
Excellent... you're in a great position to advise us, then, as OASIS
staff attempts to identify optimal solutions using the Apache
server directives. That's a moot point for the moment: the IT staff
needs to unravel some configuration dependencies, maybe upgrade from
Apache 1.3 to Apache 2.x, and then implement real solutions to replace
our current adhocery. Meantime, we are stuck with Apache default
behaviors (Apache 1.3).
*[a]*
Just to clarify:
I guess WS-RX is using a handcraft "index.html" that has a META HTML
refresh tag to perform the redirect, instead of mod_rewrite or mod_alias
in Apache. And, META HTML refresh tag is not preferred for some reason.
Is my understanding correct so far?
Yes. The redirect as implemented creates too much traffic, confuses
some pieces of software, and has the undesirable effect of populating
the browser address window with the URI for the RDDL document
instead of retaining the NS URI.
What we want (per some discussions with our web architecture experts)
is more akin to what one observes in connection with NS URIs and
RDDLs as used by W3C and the (WS-*) xmlsoap.org web sites.
Contrast (A) the behavior exhibited in connection with these NS URIs
- http://www.w3.org/2000/svg
- http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/ws/2004/09/transfer
- http://www.w3.org/2003/05/soap-envelope
- http://www.opengis.net/gml
[the NS URI or the related directory URI remain visible in the
browser address window when the NS URI is dereferenced]
with (B) at WS-RX TC web site:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200510
/* when dereferenced, repopulates address window with */
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200510/wsrm-1.1-rddl-cd-02.html
We think "(A)" is what users expect, not "(B)". The RDDL is designed
for humans as well as machines, but when humans are looking for
information about a namespace (URI) via a namespace document, it
seems far preferable to have the namespace URI displayed in the
window when the human user is viewing the RDDL information. We
intend, provisionally, to recommend a solution that resembles
the behavior for this NS URI:
http://www.w3.org/2000/svg
*[b]*
Questions:
Would it be more acceptable that the "index.html" itself located in a
number directory is the XHTML+RDDL content? (i.e. no meta html refresh
or redirect business)
I can understand why you'd propose that, and arguably it's more
acceptable than what we now implement for WS-RX (wsrm).
On the other hand, one of the key design goals for the OASIS Open
Library (http://docs.oasis-open.org/) is to make the file system
contents transparent to users. That goal is motivated by several
features we want to implement, like "please ZIP up the contents
of this directory (recursively) and let me download the whole
collection of files as one ZIP file". For these kinds of operations,
we need to allow the users to see what's on the file system. Our
plan is to use the most informative "fancy" index page navigation
that Apache will support, augmented perhaps with some related
file system navigation/browse tools. In any case, we need to be
able to present unfiltered directory listings.
Thus, in the naming guidelines (approved but not yet announced)
we express this in the words: "TC members must not create filenames that
compete with any reserved filenames used by the system/server or by
OASIS
staff for administrative purposes... File names reserved for (future)
administrative use include any files significant to the Apache server
(e.g., .htaccess; *.cgi; *.conf or matching any Apache config files;
mime.types) and files used by Staff for uniform browsing/navigation
(e.g.,
index.html, index.htm, etc). A complete list must be provided..." See:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNaming.html#nameConstruction
*[c]*
If suggestion in [b] is not preferred, I would personally want to see a
"raw directory" listing. (similar to
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wss/2004/01/ ) in 5 directories for XSD:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/executable
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/plnktype
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/serviceref
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/varprop
As described earlier, a design goal for the OASIS Open Library is to
always provide transparent ('raw') directory listings: we want users to
be able to see everything. So yes, the "raw directory" listing is
very acceptable as part of the solution.
We will have only one XHTML+RDDL as the
index.html at the top level
directory:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0
It sounds like you want to document the five (5) NS URIs in one
(RDDL) namespace document -- right? In that case, all five
NS URIs, when dereferenced, will resolve to [the resource
represented by] that single XHTML+RDDL file.
Based upon what I've explained so far, you can predict my answer
to the proposal that "index.html" [ /wsbpel/2.0/index.html ]
be used as the filename for the RDDL: that would be OK, but we
would want to override the default Apache behavior to ensure that
we display the directory listing when a request is made for
either of these resources:
a) http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0
b) http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/
Viz., we would not (want to) display the contents of the
file .../wsbpel/2.0/index.html when a user (agent) makes
an HTTP request for "a)" or "b)" immediately above
What we want to achieve in [b]/[c] is:
given a NS URI (e.g.
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/executable ),
people can locate its XSD very quickly from http://docs.oasis-open.org
web site.
That's a very reasonable goal, IMO.
Some designs actually resolve directly to the schema file when the
NS URI is dereferenced. I don't want to explain here why I think
that's a bad idea.
I think you can design the RDDL document to provide a highly visible
mapping from NS URI to the schema (location) URI. For example,
you could create an HTML table at the very top of the RDDL document
which displays. Table header:
(Suggested) prefix | Namespace URI | Schema Location URI
Visually, the relatiohships would be very clear, and the user
can click on any of the (hyperlinked) Schema Location URIs
** Unfortunately, there's little consensus as of yet about the
structure of RDDL documents in support of machine-to-machine use.
If we select the schema location suggested by
your first email this
morning, e.g.,
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/schemas/wsbpel_abstract_common_base.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/schemas/wsbpel_executable.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/schemas/wsbpel_plnktype.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/schemas/wsbpel_serviceref.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/schemas/wsbpel_varprop.xsd
Then, it will be actually harder for people to locate the file.
I can see why you'd say that. So I believe the RDDL is the best
solution to the problem of making it easy to locate a schema file
if they the NS URI: just dereference the NS URI, and see the
(hyperlinked) schema URI at the top of the RDDL document.
And, if there is a need for an errata for XSD,
we can upload the errata
version of XSD to the same directory. That will mirror similar efforts
for "http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/"
It appears that the downside of the 'xmlsoap.org' design is that we
cannot detect what resources are in the '/wsdl/' directory (assuming
that there is a /wsdl/ direcory). We want to maximize the visibility
of all resources by exposing the file system.
Please let me know whether [b] or [c] is more
feasible for you guys.
I'll discuss the details with Mary McRae. Meantime, perhaps you can
reflect on the notion that creative use of your RDDL document is
indeed the more natural, effortless, and predictable way of
helping a user get from the NS URI to the Schema location URI.
Thanks!
Regards,
Alex Yiu
Robin Cover wrote:
Thanks, Alex.
Alas, I have not been fast enough in my communications.
The example provided from the existing implementation of
WS-RX TC NS URIs is not a good example. It represents the
state of affairs as initially requested by the WS-RX TC,
but in subsequent conversations with the (relevant)
TC members, it was admitted/agreed that the OASIS
implementation at the server level
a) using special hand-crafted index files
b) with META refresh redirects
c) which brings the RDDL document URI into the browser adddress
window when the NS URI is dereferenced
is neither desirable nor optimal.
Hence, my message of earlier today:
Subject: URIs for RDDLs, WSDLs, Schemas, etc
Message-ID: <>
urged your TC to consider a different strategy which does NOT
locate the schema files in the proposed directories -- since the
NS URI is in effect overloaded.
If you want to follow the example used (currently) for the WS-RX
TC, that's OK, but please realize:
a) we cannot recommend that solution as optimal or desirable
b) we intend to fix the implementation in the WS-RX TC as soon as
we get OASIS IT support -- viz., it will then NOT work
in the manner you now observe
c) we intend to fix a couple related implementations that use the
(crude, kludge, hack META refresh redirect mechanism)
d) the ebxml-bp TC members initially requested an implementation of
the NOT-recommended type, and we are in the midst of a
painful process to correct that situation by reduplicating
files to a new directory where they can be listed using
standard/default Apache indexing
So you say:
"If the pattern is feasible for WS-RX, it should work for us also."
to which I need to reply: "the WS-RX TC pattern is not a good
implementation pattern to follow," even if it's "feasible"
in the sense of being nominally functional.
I am very proud of the pioneering work done on RDDLs by Marc
Goodner, Chris Ferris, Paul Cotton, and others in the WS-RX
TC. Unfortunately, we were unable to provide an optimal
implementation at the server level. We are trying to avoid
further problems by asking TCs to consider an alternate
pattern for schema location. The server implementation
(I would characterize as a crude hack) is not something
the WS-RX members envisioned or requested: it is the
temporary solution provided by OASIS staff.
In any case, when OASIS IT provides the requested support
for Apache redirects, we will continue to deliver a (RDDL)
namespace document when the namespace URI is dereferenced.
However, the implementation will be a lot cleaner, and will
avoid some of the (reported) DNS/HTTP resolution problems
associated with the current implementation. Using
the appropriate Apache directives will also allow us to
override the default Apache redirect problem described in
my note earlier today.
I apologize that I was unable to dive into this discussion
earlier.
Thanks.
Robin Cover
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, Alex Yiu wrote:
Hi Robin,
(cc'ing Prasad and wsbpel-spec-editing list)
Thanks for your email.
Robin wrote:
a) Directory URI: http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract/
b) NS URI: http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract
The current default server behavior is to issue a redirect from "b)" to
"a)" when a user (agent) requests the resource at "b)". This default
handling makes it impossible to produce a (raw, Apache-generated)
directory listing for the contents of the "abstract" directory because
dereferencing the NS URI needs to produce the associated RDDL namespace
document. Given our existing limitations, there's no way to get Apache
to list the directory contents, because the URI is overloaded.
Not being able to produce a (raw,
Apache-generated) directory listing is
fine to me. We don't need a raw directory listen, if we got a XHTML+RDDL
document already. That document is a better way to explain the content
of that directory.
Let me re-iterate my viewpoint so far by lookin into Mary's WS-RX
example:
schema location =
http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200510/wsrm-1.1-schema-200510.xsd
targetNamespace =
"http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200510"
When people try to use a brower (user-agent) to access
"http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200510" or
"http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200510/"
it will be redirected to the landing page with RDDL:
"http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200510/wsrm-1.1-rddl-cd-02.html"
The above pattern fits our need also in general.
If the pattern is feasible for WS-RX, it should work for us also.
We just need SIX landing-page (XHTML+RDDL) with the following location:
One for the top level:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0
Five for 5 XSD:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/executable
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/plnktype
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/serviceref
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/varprop
What do you guys think?
Thanks!
Regards,
Alex Yiu
Robin Cover wrote:
Alex (and others),
Based upon a posting of 14 Aug 2006 [1] and subsequent
off-list email messages, I understand that the five
namespace URIs are to be:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/executable
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/plnktype
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/serviceref
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/varprop
I see no problems at all with these namespace URIs.
The posting from 14 Aug 2006 also identifies five
corresponding schema location URIs, which (adjusted for
the ws-bpel -->> wsbpel change) would be:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract/wsbpel_abstract_common_base.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/executable/wsbpel_executable.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/plnktype/wsbpel_plnktype.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/serviceref/wsbpel_serviceref.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/varprop/wsbpel_varprop.xsd
If the TC wants to insist on these URIs, I believe the OASIS
IT Staff can adjust to that decision, and provide normal
but minimal server support for the resources represented by
the five files at the implied file system locations.
However, for consistency in OASIS operations, it would be
preferable NOT to store the schemas in the file system
locations implied by the URIs above, but rather, to store them
in a separate directory. For example, the five schemas
could be stored in a directory /schemas/, resulting in this
set of URIs:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/schemas/wsbpel_abstract_common_base.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/schemas/wsbpel_executable.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/schemas/wsbpel_plnktype.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/schemas/wsbpel_serviceref.xsd
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/schemas/wsbpel_varprop.xsd
Let me explain why this would be preferable from the OASIS
point of view.
At the current time, the OASIS servers associated with the Internet
domains www.oasis-open and docs.oasis-open.org use configurations
which are interdependent, and are tuned to reflect different needs
in Kavi and non-Kavi resources. That means the IT programming team
cannot, at this time, provide the ideal form of support for
server behavior when an HTTP scheme URI is dereferenced. For example,
at this time if the following namespace URI is to be supported,
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract
we would create a directory "abstract" beneath the directory
"process", yielding the following two URIs:
a) Directory URI: http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract/
b) NS URI: http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract
The current default server behavior is to issue a redirect from "b)"
to "a)" when a user (agent) requests the resource at "b)". This
default handling makes it impossible to produce a (raw, Apache-
generated) directory listing for the contents of the "abstract"
directory because dereferencing the NS URI needs to produce the
associated RDDL namespace document. Given our existing limitations,
there's no way to get Apache to list the directory contents,
because the URI is overloaded.
I must clarify that under ideal conditions, server configuration
tools should allow the IT programming team to implement some
"non-default" server behavior using Apache directives (e.g.,
mod_rewrite, mod_alias, mod_dir ) which would avoid the
redirect from "b)" to "a)" and so forth. [2]
For these reasons, and for some broad concerns for usability in
our OASIS context (desire for transparent access to the web
server's file system), it's better not to store content (files,
directories, symlinks, etc) in directories matching these URIs:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/abstract/
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/process/executable/
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/plnktype/
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/serviceref/
http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/varprop/
If the specification includes WSDL files, RDDL files, and
perhaps other files associated with the prose document(s)
and XML schemas. it would be better to store those files
(WSDLs, RDDLs, XML schemas) in one or more separate
directories other than in the five referenced immediately
above.
We can arrange a phone call to discuss details further, if
that might prove useful. I would also like to see the complete
listing of files associated with version 2.0 of the Web
Services Business Process Execution Language spec.
Robin Cover
PS You may forward this message to anyone on the design/editorial
team.
[1] http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/wsbpel/200608/msg00051.html
Subject: Issue - 289 - Proposal to vote
* From: Alex Yiu <>
* To: wsbpeltc <>
* Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:25:18 -0700
[2] Apache modules
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_rewrite.html
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_alias.html
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_dir.html
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