Title: Message
Carsten,
This is a scenario that is stritcly WSIA and doesn't fall under WSRP.
WSRP handles pages with a pre-defined set of portlets, whereas WSIA allows for a
page with an arbitrary number of portlets, determined in run-time according to
user input. Hence, the need for something beyond a persistent
entity.
Eilon
-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Leue
[mailto:]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 12:38
PM
To: Ravi Konuru
Cc: ;
Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia
joint interfaces] Search results page, map services, transient
entities.
Ravi -
I think the idea here is that the consumer performs the search
and displays
an own portlet for each individual search
result entry. So the decision on
how to generate
markup for the search result would be up to the producer.
The scenario - at least from my understanding - should not describe
one
portlet displaying the results just as a special
view state. Of course this
would also be a valid
option (maybe even a common one), but here the
producer would perform the search, not the consumer.
Best regards
Carsten Leue
-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B鐽lingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401
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Ravi
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RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] Search results page, map
services, transient
entities.
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I don't understand why transient entities are created in this
scenario. Why
is the search results page creating the
transient entities?
I can think of a case where the
search results page provides a set of
clickable GIFs
that correspond to the hotel services but NOT actually
create transient entities at the Producer. If the user actually clicks
on
one of them, it is at that time the consumer
requests the producer to
create an entity (transient
or persistent) and then embeds the output of
the
entity in its web page.
Am I missing something?
thanks,
Ravi Konuru
(Embedded image moved to file: pic30566.gif)Carsten
Leue/Germany/IBM@IBMDE
(Embe (Embedded image moved
to (Embedded image moved to
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Cars
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Reshef
to
Leue
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file:
/Ger cc: "'Alan
Kropp'"
pic32
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<>,
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/IBM
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if)
@IBM
DE Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia
joint interfaces] agenda for Tuesday
11
June
06/1
2/20
02
06:5
7
AM
I think that this is a very good scenario where transient
entities make
sense.
Best regards
Carsten Leue
-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B鐽lingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401
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| | Eilon Reshef |
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<eilon.reshef@webc|
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| | 06/11/2002 08:35 |
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| | Please respond to
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| | Eilon Reshef |
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| To: "'Alan Kropp'"
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| Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces]
agenda for
Tuesday 11 June |
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Alan,
I think that one example scenario is a search results page,
say for hotels,
that dynamically displays multiple
maps - a map for each hotel found.
Assuming that maps are remote services, and assuming that the
number of
results is dynamic, the Consumer needs to
create multiple copies of the map
service. If we allow
the Producer to determine the persistence state of
those maps, that would mean that someone will have to take care of
the
lifetime of those maps. The Consumer can't,
because the page may be gone
without the Consumer
never knowing about it (the user closes the browser
window). The Producer can't, because it can't tell whether the Consumer
has
stored a reference to those maps as part of a
design-time description of a
user page.
Is that along the lines of what you were looking for?
Eilon
-----Original
Message-----
From: Alan Kropp [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 2:18 PM
To: ''; ''
Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces]
agenda for
Tuesday 11 June
I find that the question of a Consumer creating a persistent
vs. a
transient
entity to be a
little troubling.
Isn't the Consumer primarily interested in getting a handle to
an
_entity_
(be that transient
or persistent), and then using that handle to
direct
subsequent requests to?
Could we not consider persistence and transience to be
entirely
Producer
concerns? I
understand from the sequence in the spec (pp. 6-8) that
the
only supporting scenario for the Consumer
calling
"createTransientEntity" is
out of an effort to maximize the efficiency of the conversation
with
the
Producer. This is a
worthy goal, of course, but the Producer should
advertise its interaction behavior in the meta-data, right?
Presumably the
Producer uses the
meta-data to hint to the Consumer the way(s) the
Consumer
SHOULD structure invocation requests
efficiently.
I'd love to see some more convincing scenarios to support
pushing the
persistent/transient aspect of the conversation out to the
Consumer.
Otherwise, I'd love even more to limit our
specification to a single
"createEntity" call.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From:
Carsten Leue [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 2:19 AM
To: Gil
Tayar
Cc: thomas klein6;
'';
''
Subject: RE: [wsrp]
[wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for
Tuesday
11 June
Gil -
1-3: the consumer MUST explicitly create entities (transient
or
persistent). It can decide to create sessions
explicitly if it wants
to
share them amongs entities, otherwise it can let the producer
create
sessions on the fly.
4:
the decision to have multiple entities per session is up to the
consumer
who make this choice based
on the producer's metadata. e.g think of
portlets that
form a shop together. These would want to share a
session
with each other. But the consumer could
decide to have two shops of
the
same type on the same page. Then there would be two sessions and
only
the
consumer could know
what portlet shares what session.
5: The consumer
should create a session before issuing a getFragment
call.
The entity is created whenever
necessary.
6: A Session is a bucket that holds some
data (physically on the
provider)
and times-out after a while. A transient entity is a remote
portlet
that
does not store
any data in a DB.
Hope that helped.
Best regards
Carsten Leue
-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B鐽lingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401
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| | Gil Tayar |
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<Gil.Tayar@webcol|
| | lage.com> |
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| | 06/11/2002 09:28 |
| | AM |
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Carsten Leue/Germany/IBM@IBMDE
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<>, "''"
<>, Thomas|
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| Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces]
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for Tuesday 11 June
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Carsten, could you clarify some things for me?
1. If sessions and entities are orthogonal, what SHOULD the
Consumer
do?
2. SHOULD it
create a transient entity _and_ a session?
3. MUST it
do so?
4. Who gets to decide whether there are
multiple entities per session
or
multiple sessions per entities?
5. When SHOULD
a Consumer create a session and when a transient
entity?
6. What _is_ a session, logically? What
_is_ a transient entity?
Gil
-----Original Message-----
From:
Carsten Leue [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 08:45
To: Alan
Kropp
Cc: '';
''; thomas
klein6
Subject: Re: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces]
agenda for
Tuesday 11 June
Alan - some first thoughts
1. the general concept is that entities (transient or
persistent) and
sessions are orthogonal. There might be mulitple entities per
session
and
(at least for
persistent entities) multiple sessions per entity. An
example
for the first case would be that
entities share session data within
the
same user request. An example for the second case are
portlets on a
common
page
(group page) that are access simultaneously by multiple users.
A transient entity differs from a persistent entity in that
its data
does
not persist and
its lifecycle is coupled with the session life cycle.
2. Eilon pointed out in a comment to the interface proposal
that
batch
processing is
already part of SOAP. I was not aware of that and will
look
it up until the call.
Best regards
Carsten Leue
-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B鐽lingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401
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| | Alan Kropp |
| |
<akropp@epicentri|
| | c.com> |
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| | 06/11/2002 01:54 |
| | AM |
| | Please respond to|
| | Alan Kropp |
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| To:
"''"
<>, "''"
<> |
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cc:
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| Subject: [wsrp] [wsia]
[wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda
for
Tuesday 11 June
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I think we'll have plenty of discussion around the merged
document
Rich and
Carsten put
together.
The two main issues I see that have arisen on the email lists
are:
1. What is the difference between transient entities and
sessions,
and is
there enough
of a distinction to warrant including both in the
specification?
2. There are efficiency concerns around the use of arrays in
the
method
signatures,
basically to enable batched requests for network
efficiency.
Call-in numbers:
USA Toll Free Number:
877-718-0936
USA Toll Number: +1-712-923-6878
PARTICIPANT PASSCODE: 563151
Alan
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