Title: Message
Alan,
I think that one example scenario is a search results page, say for
hotels, that dynamically displays multiple maps - a map for each hotel found.
Assuming that maps are remote services, and assuming that the number of
results is dynamic, the Consumer needs to create multiple copies of the map
service. If we allow the Producer to determine the persistence state of those
maps, that would mean that someone will have to take care of the lifetime of
those maps. The Consumer can't, because the page may be gone without the
Consumer never knowing about it (the user closes the browser window). The
Producer can't, because it can't tell whether the Consumer has stored a
reference to those maps as part of a design-time description of a user
page.
Is that along the lines of what you were looking for?
Eilon
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Kropp
[mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 2:18
PM
To: '';
''
Subject: RE: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia
joint interfaces] agenda for Tuesday 11 June
I find that the question of a Consumer creating a persistent
vs. a transient
entity to be a little
troubling.
Isn't the Consumer primarily interested in getting a handle to
an _entity_
(be that transient or persistent), and
then using that handle to direct
subsequent requests
to?
Could we not consider persistence and transience to be
entirely Producer
concerns? I understand from
the sequence in the spec (pp. 6-8) that the
only
supporting scenario for the Consumer calling "createTransientEntity" is
out of an effort to maximize the efficiency of the
conversation with the
Producer. This is a worthy
goal, of course, but the Producer should
advertise its
interaction behavior in the meta-data, right? Presumably the
Producer uses the meta-data to hint to the Consumer the
way(s) the Consumer
SHOULD structure invocation
requests efficiently.
I'd love to see some more convincing scenarios to support
pushing the
persistent/transient aspect of the
conversation out to the Consumer.
Otherwise, I'd love
even more to limit our specification to a single
"createEntity" call.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From:
Carsten Leue [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 2:19 AM
To: Gil
Tayar
Cc: thomas klein6;
'';
''
Subject: RE: [wsrp]
[wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces] agenda for
Tuesday
11 June
Gil -
1-3: the consumer MUST explicitly create entities (transient
or
persistent). It can decide to create sessions
explicitly if it wants to
share them amongs entities,
otherwise it can let the producer create
sessions on
the fly.
4: the decision to have multiple entities per
session is up to the consumer
who make this choice
based on the producer's metadata. e.g think of
portlets that form a shop together. These would want to share a
session
with each other. But the consumer could decide
to have two shops of the
same type on the same page.
Then there would be two sessions and only the
consumer
could know what portlet shares what session.
5: The
consumer should create a session before issuing a getFragment call.
The entity is created whenever necessary.
6: A Session is a bucket that holds some data (physically on the
provider)
and times-out after a while. A transient
entity is a remote portlet that
does not store any
data in a DB.
Hope that helped.
Best regards
Carsten Leue
-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B鐽lingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401
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| Subject: RE: [wsrp]
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June
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Carsten, could you clarify some things for me?
1. If sessions and entities are orthogonal, what SHOULD the
Consumer do?
2. SHOULD it create a transient entity
_and_ a session?
3. MUST it do so?
4. Who gets to decide whether there are multiple entities per session
or
multiple sessions per entities?
5. When SHOULD a Consumer create a session and when a transient
entity?
6. What _is_ a session, logically? What _is_ a
transient entity?
Gil
-----Original Message-----
From:
Carsten Leue [mailto:]
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 08:45
To: Alan
Kropp
Cc: '';
''; thomas
klein6
Subject: Re: [wsrp] [wsia] [wsrp-wsia joint interfaces]
agenda for
Tuesday 11 June
Alan - some first thoughts
1. the general concept is that entities (transient or
persistent) and
sessions are orthogonal. There might
be mulitple entities per session and
(at least for
persistent entities) multiple sessions per entity. An example
for the first case would be that entities share session data
within the
same user request. An example for the
second case are portlets on a common
page (group page)
that are access simultaneously by multiple users.
A
transient entity differs from a persistent entity in that its data does
not persist and its lifecycle is coupled with the session
life cycle.
2. Eilon pointed out in a comment to the interface proposal
that batch
processing is already part of SOAP. I was
not aware of that and will look
it up until the
call.
Best regards
Carsten Leue
-------
Dr. Carsten Leue
Dept.8288, IBM Laboratory B鐽lingen , Germany
Tel.: +49-7031-16-4603, Fax: +49-7031-16-4401
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| Alan
Kropp |
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<akropp@epicentri|
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| 06/11/2002 01:54
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AM
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| Alan
Kropp |
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To: "''"
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Tuesday 11
June
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I think we'll have plenty of discussion around the merged
document Rich and
Carsten put together.
The two main issues I see that have arisen on the email lists
are:
1. What is the difference between transient entities and
sessions, and is
there enough of a distinction to
warrant including both in the
specification?
2. There are efficiency concerns around the use of
arrays in the method
signatures, basically to enable
batched requests for network efficiency.
Call-in numbers:
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Number: 877-718-0936
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+1-712-923-6878
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563151
Alan
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