Title: Message
Hi
Doug,
I
thought about this when I wrote that portion of the HTML
profile.
From a
philosophical view, I strongly think I bpt/ept should only be used in XLIFF
files that are derived from non-markup formats (RTF, for
example).
I
really don't like the idea of using bpt/ept on XLIFF files derived from HTML,
XHTML, or XML files. I see "begin paired tag" and "end paired tag" as an
artificial device. It could easily lead to malformed XML on the conversion
from XLIFF back to HTML.
Assuming the source file is well formed, it would be a shame to have to
delimit inline elements in an artificial way. If <g tags are defined in
the spec in such a way that they are thought to be for non-translatable text, I
would vote to either update the specification, or come up with a new element for
identifying translatable inline elements in <target
elements.
Thanks
to Doug and Rodolfo for brining this issue to light,
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Domeny
[mailto:]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:29
PM
To: 'Rodolfo M. Raya'
Cc:
Subject: [xliff] RE: How to translate
text within G tags?
Rodolfo,
others,
Yes, I can see where
<g> could be interpreted as containing only non-translatable codes.
I based my use of
them on the HTML profile document (see below).
I’ve copied the rest
of the XLIFF cmte for their input.
Should the HTML
profile be revised to use bpt/ept instead of <g> for inline
elements?
3.1.4. Inline
Elements
In most
cases, inline elements are very well suited to be mapped to <g>. The
value of their ctype attribute should be a
concatenation of 'x-html-' and the name of the
element (in lowercase). For example: <b> would be
mapped to <g
ctype='bold'>.
Example:
<p>In Portland, Oregon one may
<i>ski</i> on the mountain, <b>wind surf</b> in the
gorge, and <i>surf</i> in the ocean, all on the same
day.</p>
should be
mapped to:
<trans-unit id='1'
restype='x-html-p'>
<source xml:lang='en'>In Portland,
Oregon one may <g id='i1' ctype='x-html-i'>ski</g> on the
mountain, <g id='i1' ctype='bold'>wind surf</g> in the gorge, and
<g id='i1' ctype='x-html-i'>surf</g> in the ocean, all on the same
day.</source>
</trans-unit>
Regards,
Doug
Domeny
Software
Analyst
Ektron,
Inc.
+1 603 594-0249
x212
http://www.ektron.com
From: Rodolfo
M. Raya [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 7:01
PM
To: Doug
Domeny
Subject: Re: How to
translate text within G tags?
Hi Doug,
As far as I know,
<g> elements contain inline codes, not translatable
text.
>From the specs: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/xliff/documents/xliff-specification.htm#g
<g>
Generic group placeholder - The
<g> element is used to
replace any inline code of the original document that has a beginning and an
end, does not overlap other paired inline codes, and can be moved within its
parent structural element.
To me, this means that <g> is
used to wrap moveable inline code and for "inline code" I understand tags
inherent to the formatting of the document, i.e. "\i" and "\i0" to mark start
and end of italics in RTF or "<i>" and "</i>" for the same purpose
in HTML. IMO, only the formatting portion can be enclosed in <g>. Notice
that <g> cannot contain any <sub> element with translatable text
inside.
In your example I would enclose the text "no need to download
again in a <bpt>/<ept> pair.
According to the introduction
of the specs, XLIFF "borrows" elements from TMX and you can read a clear
example of handling italics in TMX at http://www.lisa.org/standards/tmx/tmx.html#ContentMarkup_Rules
If
you consider <g> as a black box with translatable text that can be
moved, the translatable text that it contains may end at any location in the
translated segment. The result can be horrible.
Think on RTF documents
that when converted to XLIFF contains tags in the middle of a word in the
source text. Most of the times those tags are originated in change tracking
and signal the correction of a spelling error. Translators usually place those
tags at the end of the segment or after the corresponding word in their
translations but never in the middle of the equivalent word in the target
language. This is the typical use case for <g> tags.
Best
regards,
Rodolfo
On Mon, 2006-03-06 at 17:20 -0500, Doug Domeny
wrote:
Rodolfo,
While testing
with the XLIFF Editor, I couldn’t find a way to translate text between
<g> tags.
For example,
How would a
translator translate the phrase “not need to download
again”?
The XLIFF
is:
<target
state="needs-translation">Before you can use
eWebEditPro, it must be downloaded into your browser. When you click the
<g id="2"
ctype="bold">Install
Now</g>button at the bottom of
this page, eWebEditPro will be automatically downloaded and installed. This
process may take several minutes depending on the speed of your network
connection. Once downloaded, eWebEditPro will <g
id="4"
ctype="italic">not need to
download again</g> unless upgrading to a
newer version.</target>
Regards,
Doug
Domeny
Software
Analyst
Ektron,
Inc.
+1 603 594-0249
x212
http://www.ektron.com
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