Re: [xml-dev] Developing open business information exchange documents

At 2017-02-23 17:57 +0100, u123724 wrote:
> > So ... the model is separate from the syntax. CCTS is standalone 
> as a modeling tool.
> > A user community chooses which NDRs to use to go from the model 
> to the syntax.
>
>That makes sense; however, while I don't know the situation with UBL
>specifically, in said address consolidation project I came across
>established postal address representation schemes for XML making heavy
>use of their own ad-hoc "meta" systems in XML (eg. as in <field
>role="this">that</field>) which I always found to have a smell.

As a developer, I would have problems with that as well.  If nothing 
else than if the role attribute were misspelled and I wasn't using a 
constraint language such as RELAX-NG to constrain attribute spellings.

The goal our group is trying to achieve is the unambiguous 
representation of semantic information in a document syntax 
transmitted between different parties with different internal data models.

> > Personally, I'm growing to accept that an XML schema expressed entirely
> > of element content and no mixed content doesn't have benefits 
> over a JSON schema.
>
>That is along the lines as discussed last week here. My point was to
>get an opinion of whether it's accepted that there is
>
>- intrinsic semantic information in the formatting/presentation of
>text getting lost in component representation ("fielded addresses")
>unless going to extremes in preserving sequence of eg. lines and
>individual tokens or vertical alignment information

Personally, I would worry about intrinsic information being properly 
interpreted from presentation by a program (fewer problems for 
humans).  I think "hidden" can be another word for some "intrinsic" 
information.

One of the UBL content rules (layered on top of the syntax rules) is 
that no element is allowed to be empty, and the absence of an element 
cannot be considered a semantic signal of any kind.  This would 
hopefully suppress any desire for intrinsic content:

  http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/UBL-2.2.html#S-EMPTY-ELEMENTS

>- a benefit in having a document as a palpable/material manifest for a
>business transaction in the digital age

Absolutely!  A principle (as opposed to an explicit content rule) in 
UBL is that all values must be manifest, and it is cited from the 
content rule above:

   http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/UBL-2.2.html#S-MANIFEST-VALUES

>These points don't focus so much on formal, grammatical, or logical
>arguments as they accept a cultural "humanist/antropocentric" view
>about technology and information modeling.

Agreed.  Which is why we have these explicit considerations in UBL 
regarding intrinsic information so that feelings don't get involved. :{)}

>Also, a theoretical point could be made that, since almost any
>business process requires the identification of parties/persons
>(natural or otherwise), and hence address data, a data serialization
>format should be equipped with semistructured data modelling
>capabilities.

Hmmmmmmm ... I don't agree.  I mentioned the two extremes offered in 
UBL addresses of fully structured or fully unstructured 
representations.  The unstructured representation for human eyes can 
read "Switzerland" and the structured representation for application 
use can read "CH" which can be validated against the ISO code list 
for country codes.  Using semi-structured content to markup the 
country can introduce challenges for the programmer if they have to 
deal with, say, spelling mistakes that cannot be pre-validated.  Or 
the challenge to express the constraint that the country code is 
mandatory in a semi-structured address (fine for RELAX-NG but not XSD 
without assertions).

NEIM is similar to CCTS in that it has element-only content only and 
not any mixed content, and the arguments are similar:

https://reference.niem.gov/niem/specification/naming-and-design-rules/3.0/NIEM-NDR-3.0-2014-07-31.html#section_6.2.7
https://reference.niem.gov/niem/specification/naming-and-design-rules/3.0/NIEM-NDR-3.0-2014-07-31.html#section_9.1.3.1

In UBL there is no such thing as a paragraph.  There are description 
fields, but the cardinality is for language, not for the concept of 
paragraphs.  There is no intrinsic interpretation of line-breaks as 
paragraphs in the one language description field.  If information 
needs to be formatted in paragraphs, say a tendering document, then 
the user uses some other suitable representation and embeds it or 
refers to it as a blob as in:

http://docs.oasis-open.org/ubl/os-UBL-2.1/mod/summary/reports/UBL-AllDocuments-2.1.html#t-CommonLibrary-2040

If a fully structured representation is not available, then certainly 
semi-structured is better than no structure at all.  It provides some 
semantic identification of the components, without validation, but 
that's okay because there is no validation of unstructured addresses either.

I think it is a bit strong to say a serialization format *should* be 
equipped with semi-structured capabilities.  It depends on the 
data.  Absolutely for a repair manual, but I think not for an address 
if fully-structured addresses are available.  Mixed content adds a 
layer of complexity ... and how would I express mixed content in JSON?

Horses for courses.  Use the fully structured address for machine 
processing and the fully unstructured address for human 
consumption.  Leave semi-structured mixed content for 
presentation-oriented information.

. . . . . . . Ken

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