So here's a use case that's near and dear to
me:
Let's say someone has a site that is an XRI/XDI enabled
version of Epinions.com, @xpinions. @xpinions wants to make an assertion about
=Drummond that they control, not that =Drummond controls. Let's say that
Drummond is communitive =>
@xpionions*(=Drummond)/$is/(+communitive) [Btw,
<- correct? shorter way of stating?]
Let's
say they also want to reference/pt to a statement that =Drummond says he's open
=>
@xpinions=Drummond/$is/(+open)
Does
the above make sense and show need for both? Also is syntax correct for v3, and
is there a more concise way to express it?
Thanks,
=Bill.Barnhill
From: Chasen, Les
[mailto:]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 2:03
PM
To: Giovanni Bartolomeo; Drummond Reed
Cc: OASIS - XDI
TC; Barnhill, William [USA]; OASIS XRI TC
Subject: RE: [xdi] Global
Cross-Reference Proposal
I don't see the importance here. You are introducing
a semantic "scare quote" difference between the current "local" cross references
and the proposed "global" cross references. I find that distinction so
very nuanced that it is confusing. I don't understand why we want to
introduce this into XRI.
From: Giovanni Bartolomeo
[mailto:]
Sent: Monday, November 10,
2008 1:01 PM
To: Drummond Reed
Cc: 'OASIS - XDI TC';
Barnhill, William [USA]; Chasen, Les; 'OASIS XRI TC'
Subject: RE:
[xdi] Global Cross-Reference Proposal
Thanks Drummond, it clarifies indeed! Wow, that's a very
powerful mechanism!
And should also answer Bill's question:
"If the following is now a reference to the global
=Drummond:
@cordance=drummond
<== global scope – NOT ALLOWED IN XRI 2.0
then how would @cordance make a
statement 'about' =Drummond?"
is my understanding correct?
Thanks!
Giovanni
At 18.13 10/11/2008, Drummond Reed
wrote:
Giovanni,
I forgot to cc the XDI TC list on my reply
to Les this morning. I'm
including it below just to clarify the question you
asked. Note that your
point about the XDI statement being reflected only
applies to XRIs in an XDI
context (which is of course what the XDI TC is
focused on). In XRI 3.0 the
semantics are more universal, i.e., what does an
XRI cross-reference mean in
_any_ context.
Best,
=Drummond
********** DRUMMOND'S EARLIER REPLY TO LES ***************
Les,
you're right that in both @cordance=drummond and @cordance*(=drummond),
you
can infer a semantic relationship between the subsegments (@cordance
and
=drummond) and their global XRIs.
However, in the latter case, I
think the only interpretation you can infer
is that the entity being referred
to by *(=drummond) is being referred to IN
A DIFFERENT CONTEXT than
=drummond.
The rationale is the same as the example I gave in natural
language on the
wiki page, which is when quotes are used in English to
explicitly
communicate that a particular word/phrase is being used in
"quotes",
specifically what are called "scare quotes" (thanks to John Bradley
for
educating me about that phrase). There's a good Wikipedia article on
scare
quotes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quote
The
example I used on the wiki page
was:
Boeing
"international" employment contract signature date
In that phrase, the
only thing an English reader can interpret about the
word "international" is
that it is being used in a different context than
the normal use of the word.
I think it's safe to say that in order to
understand what context applies
(and therefore what the word really means in
that context), you have to look
either at the immediate context of the full
sentence, or the full paragraph,
or the full context in which it appears.
Which is exactly the meaning of
"local context symbols" in XRI.
Therefore the following line up
nicely:
Boeing
"international" employment contract signature
date
@boeing*(+international)+employment$contract$sig$d
...and...
Boeing
international employment contract signature
date
@boeing+international+employment$contract$sig$d
I don't think there's any
more semantics that can be interpreted from the
difference. However I think
you can see why the issue is so important to XRI
3.0 -- in XRI 2.0 the _only_
cross-reference that can be expressed in the
"scare quote" version, whereas
in normal natural language (as in typical XDI
RDF), it's the global
cross-reference version that's needed.
Hope this
helps,
=Drummond
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
Giovanni Bartolomeo [
mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, November 10,
2008 9:04 AM
> To: Chasen, Les; Drummond Reed; OASIS XRI TC
> Cc:
OASIS - XDI TC
> Subject: RE: [xdi] Global Cross-Reference
Proposal
>
> Hello, I'm not sure to understand your last
statement:
>
> > In both cases the definition behind
=Drummond comes from @cordance.
>
> Maybe I'm getting wrong, but in
XDI (which means basically in this
> XRI3.0 proposal), @cordance=Drummond
can be composed if and only if
> the statement @cordance/$has/=Drummond
(aggregation) holds. According
> to my understanding, this should sound:
=Drummond does not come from
> @cordance, rather, it is @cordance which is
an aggregation of people
> like =Drummond.
> What do you
think?
>
> Thanks,
> Giovanni
>
> At 17.30
07/11/2008, Chasen, Les wrote:
> >I still do not understand how
@cordance=Drummond and
> >@cordance*(=Drummond) differ. I
understand you are saying that one is
> >global and the other is local
but they are both cross references to
> >=Drummond. In both cases
the definition behind =Drummond comes from
> >@cordance.
>
>
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
From: Drummond Reed [
mailto:]
> > > Sent: Friday, November
07, 2008 2:54 AM
> > > To: 'OASIS XRI TC'
> > > Cc:
'OASIS - XDI TC'
> > > Subject: [xdi] Global Cross-Reference
Proposal
> > >
> > > I finally had time tonight to
complete the writeup of the Global
> > > Cross-Reference proposal
for XRI Syntax 3.0. This is based mostly on
> > > requirements from
the XDI TC that go back to the dawn of the XDI RDF
> > >
model.
> > > We have been discussing them on our last few weekly
telecons in order
> > > to
> > > document them in detail
before the XRI TC F2F next week.
> > >
> > > The full
proposal is written up at:
> > >
> >
> http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XriThree/GlobalCrossReferences
>
> >
> > > Since this is the proposal with the biggest impact
on XRI 3.0 syntax,
> >I
> > > urge
> > > all
XRI TC members to read through it and comment on the list.
> >
>
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
=Drummond
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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