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Fwd: Changes requested for minutes for 4 February 2017
Meant to send this to the TC ...
Best,
Kris
Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype)
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:
Changes requested for minutes for 4 February 2017
Date:
Tue, 21 Feb 2017 09:40:00 -0500
From:
Kristen James Eberlein
<>
To:
Nancy Harrison
<>
Hi, Nancy.
I hope you are feeling better!
A couple of minor tweaks to minutes:
"Kanban board" should be "GitHub project board".
Please remove "Kris; BTW, Robert has updated the password
for the Kanban board. We'll need to look at that today." -- No
idea what that is about.
Additional action item: Keith will reach out to Jang Graat
about the hazard statement domain.
Re discussion of hazard statement domain:
Currently "Robert; I would think they'd want the spec to
actually mandate specific images according to ANSI spec. We
couldn't do that."
Change to: "Robert: For DITA 1.2, the designer wanted the
spec to actually mandate specific images according to ANSI
spec. We couldn't do that."
Thanks.
Best,
Kris
Kristen James Eberlein
Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting
www.eberleinconsulting.com
+1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype)
On 2/20/2017 7:20 PM, Nancy Harrison
wrote:
Submitter's message
[My apologies for the delay in getting these out; I got hit hard
by the winter flu and laryngitis]
ActionItems:
1. Robert will update kanban board to add items for 2.0 wrt
glossary
2. Robert will move kanban item 'change name of @locktitle, and
change default to 'yes' to stage 1 and add Eliot's name.
=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 14 February 2017
Recorded by Nancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Business
========
1. Roll call
Regrets: Eric Sirois
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201702/msg00026.html
(Tom Magliery, 07 February 2017)
moved by Kris, seconded by Bob, approved by TC
3. Announcements:
New TC members: None
4. Action items
23 August 2016:
Kris: Get TC instance of DITAweb updated with 1.3 DTDs; restore
sync with SVN (IN PROGRESS)
Kris; I sent mail to Mekon to get DITAWeb working; hopefully
that will be available maybe soon as next week.
6 September 2016
Kris: Revise subject scheme example topic pulled from errata 01
4 October 2016:
Tom: Work on aggregated minutes for 2005-2011 (IN PROGRESS)
25 October 2016
Deb: Develop FAQ for folks new to DITA TC (IN PROGRESS)
07 February 2017
Everyone: Review translation of iiRDS slide deck
5. Continuing item: tcworld iiRDS slides (English translation)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201612/msg00048.html
(Eberlein, 07 December 2016)
[continued to next week]
6. New item from agenda backlog: glossref design
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201612/msg00001.html
(Kimber, 01 December 2016)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201612/msg00003.html
(Anderson, 01 December 2016)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201612/msg00004.html
(Kimber, 01 December 2016)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201612/msg00006.html
(Hudson, 01 December 2016)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201612/msg00018.html
(Sirois, 02 December 2016)
Kris; this began with Eliot, to which Robert responded.
Eliot; in trying to use glossref, I got strange results, because
glossref sets default for @print to 'no.' This is both
surprising and unwanted; it makes the element not useful if you
want to print glossary entries. I asked why this is, and got
back 'we don't know'. so we should change this in 2.0
Kris; since @print is already deprecated, we'll be removing it
in 2.0.
Robert; and we don't have a default for @deliverytarget. I don't
think this element represents as much thought as it should have
had.
Scott; one of the items where we have the same reaction as Eliot
is when we're trying to use abbreviated forms, they actually
don't appear in output unless glossentries appear in the printed
output. even using 'resource-only' doesn't fix that. So whatever
we can to to fix this would be good.
Kris; so this really covers multiple items; basic glossref
design, and other issues around abbreviated-form glossentries.
so part of this is just bug-fixing, but looking at glossentries
and abbr.-forms would be a broader issue.
Eliot; it could be; I'd like a glossref type that provides some
hooks for glossary generation.
Kris; so the real request is to correct glossref design,
Eliot; yes, define reqs around glossary map structure.
Kris; do we have any data points around who's using the stuff
that came with 1.2 for glossaries?
Dawn; it's definitely been an issue, and we mention it in our
trainings for clients. (to change @print to 'yes')
Bob; I've found that wrt the model in bookmap for putting in a
glossary, that there are so many alternative ways to put it in
that it becomes a problem - either a gloss map, point directly,
etc., etc. Some of them don't work with other stuff.
Kris; and this is getting into specifics of PDF output... But
not about how folks should/could use glossary
Dawn; another issue; clients will use 'term' but then that
doesn't work together with glossref.
Eliot; just fyi, the client that got me into this is a large
user of DITA (hundreds of manuals)
Kris; so we need a card on our 2.0 board for this. Eliot, do you
have a card title?
Eliot; we want to capture gloss-related reqs a bit more
formally. See how that translates to reqs.
Kris; Robert, please add these as new items to our project
board. 2 items, one is glossref design wrt @print, other is
'glossary-related requirements'
Kris; BTW, Robert has updated the password for the Kanban board.
We'll need to look at that today.
ActionItem: Robert will update kanban board to add items for 2.0
wrt glossary
7. New item from agenda backlog: Difficulty of interaction
between related-links and reltable links
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201610/msg00112.html
(Eberlein, 27 October 2016)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201611/msg00005.html
(Nitchie, 3 November 2016)
Kris; do we want to add this to 2.0? Chris mentioned that he'd
be willing to work on this in 2.0. Not something that's so
important to me, but is there a way we can make this easier, and
are there changes we want to consider in 2.0 for linking in
general?
Scott; one suggestion we give our writers is not to use related
links.
Eliot; there's an issue around reltables; the spec is unclear on
the implications on reltable in a map that establishes a
keyscope; we need to nail that down; it could certainly have
implications for how you manage sets of reltables. I can't
imagine managing large sets of reltables at the map level. Also,
I'd like to be able to copy link data into reltables.
Kris; most of us are used to recommending 'use reltables rather
than related-links.'
Chris; it's a spatial problem too. From a given topic, it's hard
to get a definitive list of all the related-links that will
appear; have to go up and look at every map and topic.
Kris; we haven't talked about changes to early design of
reltables and related-links.
Robert; just as historical context, reltables came out of a
design by Michael. as a way to track links. related-links was a
way to specify them within a topic 'if you must.'
Mark; is the answer as easy as changing topic to contain
reltables instead of related-links?
Chris; actually, it's the opposite; the goal is to remove
linking from within topics completely and put it only in maps.
Eliot; if we define a specialization of topicref whose tagname
is 'link', (ignoring other attributes...)
Chris; what reltables give you is bi-directionality; I can't
think of another way to achieve that. But that sometimes needs
to be turned off... For casual authors who just want to author
related-links within a map.
Eliot; I think a link only within a 'reltables zone' in a topic,
would be a problem. reltables are fundamentally diff from the
hierarchy of topicrefs that a map defines. And when I'm
describing topicrefs, I often have to say 'except for topicrefs
within reltables'.
Tom; I've always considered it a bonus that in Xmetal you can
create a reltable by simply copying links from somewhere else.
If we make the change to 'link', any tool would have that
capacity.
Eliot; I don't know if that would have to happen, if it was an
expansion of table entries content.
Kris; There's also an issue of managing the slew of reltables
and figuring out where links go to after processing.
Don; in early IBM days, some teams created books solely based on
topics. Analyze related-links. created contents without a map,
then analyzed related-links to see what structure they should be
a part of.
Kris; was this prior to the existence of maps?
Don; no, they already existed; the author needed to be an
earlier adopter of the technology; she abandoned it pretty
quickly. It might be worth talking to her.
Robert; I don't remember that.
Kris; so any consensus on this agenda item?
[none]
Kris; if I come up with any ideas between now and next week,
will bring them back.
8. Continuing item: Formal work on DITA 2.0
Project page at the GitHub repo: https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/projects/2
Process:
Report back from small group (Kris, Robert, Tom, Maria)
Review of cards on project page
Backlog of random items
Stage one (in progress)
Kris; small group had a presentation
Maria; I found it really helpful; hope it will also be for new
members of the TC
Robert; it was a good refresher for me; noted that what I
remember didn't match what we'd written down.
Kris; I think it was a productive call; will be one of first
items on next week's agenda.
[review of kanban board]
1. redesign hazard statement domain
Eliot; Jang has complained about this, he has some definite
ideas about it.
Robert; I've heard Jang talk about it. but he's not a voting
member. Can't have someone lead a proposal if they're not a
voting member.
Chris; any members who represent machinery industry?
Keith; I'll reach out to Jang and talk about it.
AI; keith will do this
Kris; for 1.2, hazard statement domain was championed by Chris
Kravogel. ended up with an issue between him and the spec
editors wrt what the DITA spec said vs. what the ANSI spec says.
There was also a difference between what the spec said and how
the DITA-OT rendered things.
Eliot; one thing is that the hazard symbol appears after the
statement rather than before.
Kris; but that is a tooling/rendering issue, rather than a
standards issue.
Robert; I would think they'd want the spec to actually mandate
specific images according to ANSI spec. We couldn't do that.
2. change name of @locktitle, and change default to 'yes'
Robert; I have trouble with that myself, but I don't know that
we should make those changes
Eliot; I'd be all for making that change
Tom; it took us a lot of work to make this work.
Kris; but what would be the impact of making these changes, in
terms fo existing content
Robert; if we keep it the same, but change the default to 'yes'
would wreak havoc.
Eliot; we need new @s and we need to deprecate the old ones.
Robert; Eliot, would you be willing to come up with a design for
this?
Eliot; I might be willing.
Robert; I might be willing to just do away with it, have never
found it useful.
ActionItem; Robert will move to stage 1 and add Eliot's name.
3. improve quality for tech content architectural topics.
Kris; I think this is part of a larger topic of splitting the
base from tech content pieces of spec. We want to make sure we
move improved tech content arch topics into the split base/tech
content. Let's move this into stage 2 item owned by Bob
4. bring consistency to URI/keyref format for referencing map
elements and topic elements.
Kris; do we know who brought this up?
[no]
[to be continued]
12 noon ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
Document Name:
DITA
TC Meeting Minutes 14 February 2017
No
description provided.
Download
Latest Revision
Public
Download Link
Submitter:
Ms. Nancy Harrison
Group: OASIS Darwin Information Typing
Architecture (DITA) TC
Folder: Meeting Notes
Date submitted: 2017-02-20 16:20:12
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