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Draft minutes from 2009-11-03/4 are attached
Title: SCA-Assy - 2009-11-03
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- DRAFT -
OASIS SCA-Assembly TC
03 NOV 2009
Attendees
Present
Mark Combellack
Avaya, Inc.
Group Member
Dale Moberg
Axway Software*
Group Member
Robert Freund
Hitachi, Ltd.
Group Member
Eric Wells
Hitachi, Ltd.
Group Member
Bryan Aupperle
IBM
Group Member
David Booz
IBM
Group Member
Graham Charters
IBM
Group Member
Mike Edwards
IBM
Group Member
Simon Holdsworth
IBM
Group Member
Diane Jordan
IBM
Group Member
Mike Kaiser
IBM
Group Member
Dieter Koenig
IBM
Group Member
Peter Niblett
IBM
Group Member
Jim Marino
Individual
Group Member
Jeff Estefan
Jet Propulsion Laboratory:*
Group Member
Martin Chapman
Oracle Corporation
Group Member
Khanderao Kand
Oracle Corporation
Group Member
Anish Karmarkar
Oracle Corporation
Group Member
Rich Levinson
Oracle Corporation
Group Member
Ashok Malhotra
Oracle Corporation
Group Member
Jeff Mischkinsky
Oracle Corporation
Group Member
Gilbert Pilz
Oracle Corporation
Group Member
Clemens Utschig - Utschig
Oracle Corporation
Group Member
Sanjay Patil
SAP AG*
Group Member
Plamen Pavlov
SAP AG*
Group Member
Sabin Ielceanu
TIBCO Software Inc.
Group Member
Eric Johnson
TIBCO Software Inc.
Group Member
Danny van der Rijn
TIBCO Software Inc.
Group Member
Scott Vorthmann
TIBCO Software Inc.
Group Member
Chairs
Martin Chapman
Mike Edwards
Scribe
Bob Freund
Agenda:1. Introductions
Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing
2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/34886/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202009-10-27.html
3. Action Items
4. TC Administrivia
a) 1st Public Review of the Assembly Model spec ended June 23
Public comments list:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly-comment/
b). 1st Public Review of Test Assertions and TestCases ended October 17
c) Confirmation of dates for Assembly F2F Meeting
December 1/2/3
Location: TIBCO, Bay Area, San Francisco.
0.5 day conclusion of SCA Assembly 1.1 specification
2.5 days Event Processing
5. New Issues (Spec)
ASSEMBLY-187: Unmarked MUST in section 10.8
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-187
Proposal:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00071.html
6. Spec Existing Issues with Proposals
ASSEMBLY 183: Conformance statement for binding.sca
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-183
Proposal:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00061.html
ASSEMBLY-132: Microsoft technical comment about the SCA Assembly Model specification #1
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-132
Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200911/msg00000.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00047.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00034.html
ASSEMBLY-149: Few comments from Siemens
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-149
Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00034.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00033.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00032.html
7. New Issues (Test)
ASSEMBLY 184: TestCase client - need to add capability for Test Bridge to check the actual error returned by the runtime.
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-184
ASSEMBLY 185: Artfacts for Testcases that have statically checkable errors must be placed into separate Contributions
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-185
ASSEMBLY 186: ASM_5023 - incorrect interfaces and referencename in TestComposite11.composite
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-186
7. Test Suite Open Issues
ASSEMBLY 170: Errors in Artifacts for a set of testcases in ASM_120xx range
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-170
Proposal is in JIRA
ASSEMBLY 171: Problems with artifacts for a set of the TestCases for SCA Assembly
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-171
Proposal is in JIRA
ASSEMBLY 172: ASM-TA-5031 is not adequately tested by any TestCase in the Test Suite
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-172
ASSEMBLY 173: Errors in Test Artifacts for ASM_6022, ASM_5032, ASM_5016
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-173
Proposal is in JIRA
ASSEMBLY 175: Current Schema for Properties does not support value attribute- [ASM50027]
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-175
Proposal is in JIRA
ASSEMBLY 159: Align Test Assertion Document with latest Draft Assembly Spec
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-159
8. Existing Issues without proposals
ASSEMBLY 140: Need TAs and testcases for property/@file and property/@many=true http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-140Agenda:1. resume meeting/roll/agenda
2. F2F planning
3. Discussion.
Continue discussions on Position 3, and start to enumerate the differences.
As a reminder:
Position 1: the current SCA 1.1 model needs tweaking/adding to, to support a pub/sub paradigm.
Position 2: SCA 1.1 use of WSDL has certain assumptions in assemblers/developers heads (and current tooling), which
need re-examining for pub/sub.
Position 3: SCA 1.1 wires and wiring may be too restrictive for pub/sub and need to be relaxed/extended.
Position 4: We agreed that we should talk about whether an assembler looking at SCDL should be able to distinguish
between events and one-way requests.
4. AOB
Contents
Topics
[1]
Opening
[2]
Administrivia
[3]
New Issues
[4]
New Issue ASSEMBLY-187: Unmarked MUST in section 10.8 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-187
[5]
Existing Issues with Proposals
[6]
ASSEMBLY 183: Conformance statement for binding.sca http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-183
[7]
ASSEMBLY-132: Microsoft technical comment about the SCA Assembly Model specification #1 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-132
[8]
AOB
[9]
Opening/Resumption
[10]
Face to Face
[11]
Discussion of Proposition 3
[12]
AOB
Table of Resolutions
Table of Action Items
Action Items
New:
id=2009-11-03-1 status=pending Edwards to add a test assertion supporting Assembly-187
Resolutions
2009-11-03-1: Minutes of 2009-10-27 approved w/o
2009-11-03-2: m:Booz s:Aupperle meeting of 2009-11-24 canceled w/o
2009-11-03-3: m:Aupperle s:Booz New Issue Assembly-187 opened w/o
2009-11-03-4: m:Aupperle s:Booz Resolve Assembly-187 with the proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00071.html w/o
2009-11-03-5: m:Booz s:Malhotra resolve Assembly-183 with the proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00061.html and the change of binding.ws to binding.sca pseudo schema in two places w/o
Minutes
Scribe: Bob Freund
Opening
Roll - quorate with 62% of voting members present
Agenda - agreed
Resolution: Minutes of 2009-10-27 approved w/o
Administrivia
Roll - updated now over 66%
Edwards:
A couple of public review issues now have proposal
...Next face to face in the Bay area (silicon, not silicone valley)
...Meeting in the week of US Thanksgiving... expecting poor attendance and suggest cancellation
Resolution: m:Booz s:Aupperle meeting of 2009-11-24 canceled w/o
New Issues
New Issue ASSEMBLY-187: Unmarked MUST in section 10.8 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-187
Aupperle introduces the issue
Resolution: m:Aupperle s:Booz New Issue Assembly-187 opened w/o
proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00071.html
<jeff.mischkinsky>
+1 to anish's comment
Action: Edwards to add a test assertion supporting Assembly-187
Resolution: m:Aupperle s:Booz Resolve Assembly-187 with the proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00071.html w/o
Existing Issues with Proposals
ASSEMBLY 183: Conformance statement for binding.sca http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-183
proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00061.html
<Dave Booz>
the pseudo schema should say binding.sca
<anish>
yes, s/binding.ws/binding.sca/
<anish>
the binding.sca is similar but different ;-)
<anish>
actually it is: s/binding.ws/binding.sca/g
<anish>
two occurrences
Motion: m:Booz s:Malhotra resolve Assembly-183 with the proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00061.html and the change of binding.ws to binding.sca pseudo schema in two placesw/o
Resolution: m:Booz s:Malhotra resolve Assembly-183 with the proposal at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200910/msg00061.html and the change of binding.ws to binding.sca pseudo schema in two places w/o
ASSEMBLY-132: Microsoft technical comment about the SCA Assembly Model specification #1 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-132
proposals linked from the agenda
Karmarkar suggests that the spec ought to be explicit as to features that are optional and which ones are absolutely mandatory
<anish>
eric, the current conformance requirement is: "The implementation MUST support and comply with at least one of the OpenCSA
Member Section adopted implementation types."
Anish, that one line could be deleted.
<anish>
yes, indeed and that is what's sanjay's proposal is. The question is, if we delete that line then do we need to replace it
with things like 'publicly avialable' etc
Anish, not if a "meta spec" exists, perhaps even if embedded in the Assembly spec
<anish>
The Q is do we want a very real iron clad conformance claim for *assembly* or allow all kinds of implementations and remove
the barriers for new impl types that will make the assembly model popular
<anish>
bob, i *think* we are agreeing. The quibble i have is why go through this legal maze to figure this out. Either we make it
easy or have an iron clad criteria
<Bryan Aupperle>
Time check
AOB
straggler roll
meeting recessed
<Mike Edwards>
OK, attendance is now correct
<Mike Edwards>
Martin - ru able to be on the call tomorrow?
<Martin C>
yes
scribe:
EricW
<Dave Booz>
I'll try to start the telecon
<Mike Edwards>
I'm here now
EricW:
Bob sends appologies (W3C clash) - so I'll be filling in for him
<gilbert.pilz>
just once I'd like to find a hold system that played the Buzzcocks or some such
<Dave Booz>
ok
Opening/Resumption
Additional role - Clemens Jim Sabin Khanderao Peter
22/24 = 91%
Agenda - as posted, no alterations
Face to Face
TIBCO confirmed host for 1 - 3 December
<clemensutschig>
location?
Chairs thank TIBCO for hosting
MikeE:
Need to work on agenda for F2F
...Can Sabin and Scott (regrets) work on agenda and on TIBCO's proposal
Discussion of Proposition 3
N.B. several protagonists are not in attendance
MartinC:
Brings us up to current point in discussion
PeterN:
Again - pub/sub is not the same as event processing
...e.g. Fire alarm is an EVENT but no pub/sub
DaleM:
Clarification - this is one to many - are we restricting to this?
PeterN:
No - include every combination. 1..N N..N, etc
<Peter Niblett>
You might use pub/sub to distribute fire alarm events, but there are occasions where you want to do 1->1 passing of events
DaleM:
Not sure channel and event types cover all we may need to do
MartinC:
We need to define sematics of channels that can then be mapped to implementations
MartinC:
Also don't think mixing wires and channels helps
PeterN:
Didn't mean SCA wires - just some sort of (graphical) representation of how channels connect artifacts
DaleM:
Maybe the distinction between wires and channels could be the end points involved
...but this may not map well onto HTTP and URL's
MikeE:
OSOA spec uses a model similar to bindings that can be mapped to variety of technologies
...but can also use a specific tecnology if required e.g. JMS
EricJ:
Seems to be different approaches...
...start from a blank slate, or
...start with existing and add/extend
...TIBCO has looked at things from the latter and Oracle seems to be the former
MartinC:
Yes. Don't want to get bogged down in haggling over syntax - we should meet in the middle
DaleM:
Can't see how a "wire" can be the same if the end points vary
...channel would need to be a first class object that are independent of wires
MikeE:
Yes that's how OSOA models them
MartinC:
That could be a good distinction -
...Wires cannot exist independent of what they are connected to
...Channels exist independently of any connected artifacts
<Mike Edwards>
Mike: 4 concepts involved with Event Processing, different from service handling:
<Mike Edwards>
1) Channels (a pub/sub mechanism)
<Mike Edwards>
2) Filters (the ability not to receive messages unless of a given namture)
<Mike Edwards>
3) Mathcing rules between Producer and Consumer (different from services)
<Mike Edwards>
4) Mapping of Artifact interfaces to Consumer and Producer
EricJ:
How does mapping of artifacts differ (4)?
MikeE:
e.g. Mapping of 1..n and n..n onto (say) Java differs
Discussion of how mapping could be done and where (in SCA or in implementations) complexity would be
MartinC:
It would be useful to look at Mikes 4 concepts and enumerate differences between wires and channels
AOB
Suggest the four concepts should be on the agenda for next meeting and F2F
MikeE:
(2) and (3) are the most difficult/different from services and existing models
...(2) Filters - concept dosn't really exist for services - no existing model in SCA v1
...(3) Matching Rules - subscribers need to accept anything (events)
...allowed connections are much more lax than service/consumer
General agreement to continue developing/discussing these four concepts
No other business
<Mike Edwards>
ok - Eric are you ok capturing the minutes?
Meeting adjourned 9:49AM PST
[End of Minutes]
Formatted on 2009-11-09 at 18:49:35 GMT+9
Minutes formatted by Schreiber, a collection of XSLT
stylesheets by Bob Freund modeled after David Booth's scribe
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system: Transformer: SAXON 9.1.0.7
[End of Schreiber diagnostic output]
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