I would agree with Frank. The essence of SOA, as has been eloquently stated, is to bring together needs and the capability to address those needs -- it is to get something done. Data in some form is likely involved but to "generate a specific piece of data" is still doing something you need done.
I don't think we have a critical difference of views, and certainly nothing to impede other progress.
Ken
On Aug 25, 2006, at 12:04 PM, Duane Nickull wrote:
Given we have documented the data model as a key aspect of SOA in the RM, I
think it depends on the "view" of the service. If one views a service as a
gateway to a process, the data likely becomes secondary, if they view it as
a means to generate a specific piece of data, perhaps it takes on higher
importance.
Toe-may-toe Tah-mah-ta
D
On 8/25/06 8:55 AM, "Francis McCabe" <> wrote:
While I agree completely that data is *always* involved in services,
I do not think that that is the key aspect of SOA.
I would assert that *action* is of the essence in SOA, not *data*.
Contrast this with the normal Web architecture. In that model,
information is of the essence, and action is a side-effect.
Frank
On Aug 25, 2006, at 8:49 AM, Duane Nickull wrote:
I feel a strong sense that the old “is null a value” question is
coming on ;-)
I think that all services must utilize data at some juncture of the
invocation lifecycle. Otherwise, why would anyone build an interface?
D
On 8/25/06 1:08 AM, "Jones, Steve G" <>
wrote:
If we are being random, a NOP service wouldn’t use data. But I’m
not quite sure what the real world effect would be either. But
I’m not sure that we need to worry about service provider types
either because the consumer doesn’t care as long as it meets the
contract.
Steve
From: Duane Nickull [mailto:]
Sent: 24 August 2006 17:26
To: Chiusano Joseph; Ken Laskey
Cc: Michael Stiefel;
Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question
Is there any service that does not use data?
D
On 8/24/06 6:29 AM, "Chiusano Joseph" <>
wrote:
Not types of service providers; service providers that provide
certain types of services (e.g. data service provider = service
provider of data services).
Joe
Joseph Chiusano
Associate
Booz Allen Hamilton
700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20005
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Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com <blocked::http://
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From: Ken Laskey [mailto:]
<mailto:%5d>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:49 AM
To: Chiusano Joseph
Cc: Michael Stiefel;
Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question
Joe,
But I'm not sure "types" of service providers is relevant. I look
at a service description, decide if the real world effects are
what I want (and whether the rest of the execution context stuff
can be aligned), and then I proceed with the interaction. If I
ask for information, I don't know (unless I have a business reason
for this to be part of my rationale for which service to use) if
it is "data" from a database, results from a simulation, or
Mechanical Turk.
Ken
On Aug 24, 2006, at 6:33 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
I think it's a question of service providers, but more
specifically of what *types* of services. So there can be data
service providers, perhaps process service providers (e.g. BPEL-
based processes), and perhaps even application service providers
in a different sense than the traditional ASP (perhaps service-
based applications).
Joe
From: Ken Laskey [mailto:]
<mailto:%5d>
Sent: Wed 8/23/2006 10:19 PM
To: Michael Stiefel
Cc:
Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question
Michael,
My question is whether there are providers in the SOA sense for
something other than services. For example, one could say there
are data providers but wouldn't they have their data sources
accessed using services? Does that apply to all providing
stakeholders?
Ken
On Aug 23, 2006, at 6:58 PM, Michael Stiefel wrote:
Aren't users of the services stakeholders?
Aren't manufacturers of equipment stakeholders?
Is the government that collects a tax or regulates a stakeholder?
Aren't the "victims" we discussed at the F2F stakeholders as well?
Michael
At 05:57 PM 8/23/2006, Ken Laskey wrote:
Can we have stakeholders who are providers or maintainers of
something other than services? Or, do we assume by the nature of
SOA that if you provide something other than a service, that
something is a capability that must have a service access, so you
always end up a service provider?
Ken
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Laskey
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| MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 |
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Ken Laskey
MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934
7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379
McLean VA 22102-7508
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Ken Laskey
MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934
7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379
McLean VA 22102-7508
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